Pen Pals

Books That Raised Us (And Broke Us)

• Krisserin Canary and Kelton Wright • Season 1 • Episode 14

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Remember that one book that made you cry in public? Or the series that basically raised you? In this episode, Kelton and Krisserin crack open their bookish brains and spill on the stories that stuck. From Kelton's pirate adventures to Krisserin's Victorian classics, they dive into their most formative reads and discuss how they schedule reading time between parenting and work. They share their comprehensive TBR lists, debate whether book adaptations ever live up to the hype, and reveal which authors make their "literary red flag" list (looking at you, Catcher in the Rye fans). Whether you're an epic fantasy lover finishing Robin Hobb's sixteenth book or just trying to squeeze in a chapter during naptime, this conversation explores our personal relationships with books and how they shape our writing lives. Bring your book recs and a beverage, because it's basically a cozy book club now.

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Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Kelton:

Hey Krisserin

Krisserin:

Hi, Kelton.

Kelton:

How you doing?

Krisserin:

I'm good.

Kelton:

Yeah.

Krisserin:

Uh, yeah. Yeah, why not? Great.

Kelton:

Awesome. I love to hear it.

I'm Krisserin Canary. And I'm Kelton Wright. Follow our quest to publish our first novels from first drafts, to query letters through inevitable rejections and hopefully eventual success from California to Colorado. This is pen pals.

Krisserin:

How was your week?

Kelton:

It was okay. I mean, it was a good week in terms of being a person alive, in my small life, you know, but, uh, I, you know, not a great week in novel writing and, they can be, they can be independent of one another. I can fail at all of my goals and still have a nice week.

Krisserin:

Well, I'm glad to hear you're feeling good about it. What happened with your novel writing this week? I didn't do any writing this week because I have no writing to do, so I wanna hear about what happened.

Kelton:

Well, as our, our listeners know, I lost a job the other week. And so I have been attempting to make that up. But in the meantime, Ben was also offered a carpentry job in town, and so because we need money, he had to take it. But that means I have the baby all day and during his naps, I have to do the work that I'm still being paid to do instead of novel writing. So unfortunately, I just did not get to work on the novel at all. But some weeks are like that. What are you gonna do? I, you know, I feel a little, feel like there's some promise in the week ahead, but we'll see.

Krisserin:

If I remember correctly, you were going to use the first nap for work and the second nap for writing, but that didn't work, so

Kelton:

Well, thankfully, one of my clients was like, I actually have a huge project for you in

Krisserin:

Oh, thank God.

Kelton:

do.

Krisserin:

Great.

Kelton:

so she took over all naps I think this is just kind of a reality of writing is like not everybody has the luxury to just write whenever they want. You know, it's like a lot of us are still in that phase of life where you, you have commitments that you have to do and the writing, unfortunately has to come second. And I know all the stuff about pay yourself first, et cetera, but I, I have to literally pay myself first in order to do that with writing. So, No novel this week. But I did make some extra cash. Ben is making some extra cash. So we are, we are a float, and we look toward the horizon.

Krisserin:

Yes, absolutely. I feel like we're both kind of in this weird space right now where we're trying to figure out how to make things work and what to do next, and that's very common. I, for writers to be in these kind of like weird in-between spaces. We can't be grinding all the time. It can't be constantly productive. But it doesn't feel good because I think, I don't know how your mind works, but I'll speak, maybe I know a little bit how your mind works, but I'll speak for, I'll speak for my mind. I feel like I have to constantly be doing, I, I have to constantly be making and, and producing and, that goes for all areas of my life. My mother is constantly lecturing me about how I'm just, she's like, you're like a hummingbird. You just burn so bright and then you crash. And literally, not yesterday,'cause I drank way too much coffee yesterday, but the night before, I picked my kids up from school. I got home at two 30 and I slept from three to six. I just passed out. And then I went to bed at 10 30 and slept another eight hours. I was just so tired.

Kelton:

Wow. Wow.

Krisserin:

and I'm also, you know, I have a new job, so I'm working like I worked until nine 30 last night because I'm, you know, I, I get up and I take the kids to school and then I work and then I pick them up and then I bring'em back and then I get them situated, do their homework. I went to open house and I come back and I work. And so I'm just like constantly filling my day. Which is easy to do when you have kids. It's like finding things to clean and homework that needs to be done and boobs that need to be stuck in baby's mouths and things like that. So

Kelton:

So, I didn't accomplish any of my goals because of all the things you listed. Um, did you accomplish any of yours?

Krisserin:

I did, I mean, not that my goals were really that hard. I went to the library and I pilled my comps and I have them to share. I have them right here, a little prop. So I have to admit, and I know, we're gonna have a whole conversation about AI next week'cause it has come to the point where it's time. We've had enough run-ins with the devil that we have to face them down. So I, I did use AI to come up with, some ideas for comps for my novel, and I got ten five that were a little bit more focused on, I would say, themes about multi-generational families and women's stories. And then I asked AI to look at some more modern and contemporary examples that included technology and, it's spat out a couple recent ones. So, the first one is the guest by Emma Cline. Stop me if you've read any of these. I haven't read any of Emma Klein's, books, but they're always on book talk as recommendations. This one was published, I believe, in the last couple of years, 2023. So two years ago. So this is the first one. And I think that there's some themes of alcoholism and other things in here that'll be relevant to my book. Luster by Raven Leilani, which is the one I'm actually most excited about. This is published in 2020. It's a shorter novel and, yeah, I don't know. I don't really know much about what these books are about, so I'm kind of letting myself be surprised. And then the last one actually, I have read, and I didn't finish it, but I really enjoyed it. It's Big Swiss by Jen Beagin. And, this novel is kind of nutty. Have you read this?

Kelton:

No, I've never even heard of it.

Krisserin:

Oh, it's, this is another book tok, recommended book that I had on my TBR and came through Libby. And. It is, it is a hoot to use your terminology. So I'll I will, I will finish reading it. It's really fun to read. It definitely has some themes of modern technology and there's a character named Sabine in the book, so you can't hate it. Right.'cause it's my daughter's name. Yeah. So I will report back once I've dug into these a little bit, but I'm excited to have some books to compare, you know, my story to, and I'll let you know when I've

Kelton:

can't

Krisserin:

dug. I got these on like Monday and they've just been sitting in my, my room waiting for me.

Kelton:

It's a beautiful stack of books.

Krisserin:

oh yeah. The covers are lovely.

Kelton:

That's all we're talking about today.

Krisserin:

Yeah.

Kelton:

we're

Krisserin:

Books.

Kelton:

we're reading, what we have read, what we're not reading, what we hated when we read, how we read, why we read. I think everyone knows, not why we read, but, but we're talking reading because that is like the core of writing is like, you kind of gotta be a reader. I don't believe authors who say they don't read, I don't trust them, something fishy.

Krisserin:

I think it has to do with, we talked about this a little bit about being afraid to do the research and comparing yourself to what's out there. But I think that has a lot to do with, okay, well, if I read something and it's fantastic, it's gonna make me feel small and like I, I'll never be able to accomplish anything. But I also find that sometimes I read stuff and I'm like, this is trash. If this can get published, I can get published.

Kelton:

Yes. I mean, that is such a, it's such a nice moment in a book. When you're like, do it, I could, I could do it. But lately I, I feel like I've been reading pretty good books. I have a few DNFs on my list for this year, but I thought we would start by just talking about our reading habits. When we read, like how we fit it in, if we're religious about it. You know, for me I obvious I go through spells and I can see that I like ebb and flow there are patterns. There are some months when I read like 10 books and there are some where I don't read any, and I have been tracking since 2020. The books I read every year. So I have a note in my phone where I just write down the title. If I didn't finish it, I say how much I finished. So I'll say like, DNF at 50%. And then I'll give a brief synopsis of, what I thought of it. I guess it's not a synopsis, but I'll, I'll give a brief like, this is why I liked it or didn't like it, or if I'd read this author again.

Krisserin:

I had a blog back in the day and it was a, a blogger and I used to maintain, and I'm still, I'm sure it's maybe, I don't know what happened to Blogger. I know Google acquired it and maybe it went into the ether, but I used to have these sections on the blog where I would put all the books I read that year. But in recent years, I have a spreadsheet that I keep and I used to rate the books. Like I had a very specific way that I would rate them. But now I just, usually what I'll do is near the end of the years, I'll download from Libby, from Kindle and from my library sources, the books that I read and dumped them in a spreadsheet just so I can see, how many books I read and what categories they were and who, and I keep track of who the authors were and when I completed them. So I can like look at the metrics of how many books I've been reading. But yeah, I am not. I'm not proud of this reading list that I've acquired. Well,'cause I also started in 2020 and maybe that's because it was the pandemic and we were all just sitting at home reading all the time and so it seemed like something to do Yeah. A lot of my, the reading that I've done in the last four years and we're talking a hundred plus books a year, was romance and romantsy and fantasy and really light reading things that I could just escape into. And actually my, I believe it, yeah, it was last year. It was definitely last year's new New Year's resolution. I said I wanted to read more serious fiction. Didn't really happen.

Kelton:

I mean, who gives a shit.

Krisserin:

I care. We talked about this. I feel like we should, we should. Yeah, every once in a while it's like eating your vegetables. Like you can't have cake every day. Yeah.

Kelton:

Enter books are entertainment.

Krisserin:

They're also education,

Kelton:

Oh

Krisserin:

right?

Kelton:

reading different books for education than fiction.

Krisserin:

Sure. Well, you read nonfiction. I don't really read nonfiction

Kelton:

Well, those

Krisserin:

at all.

Kelton:

Okay. So,

Krisserin:

No, I don't think so. Because here's the thing, I listen to, I'll listen to nonfiction. Like right now I'm listening to, I think it's Hank Green. His book about tuberculosis. Have you heard of this book?

Kelton:

No,

Krisserin:

It's, I'm listening to it only,

Kelton:

the Green Brothers.

Krisserin:

But I do feel, I mean, I was an English literature major and also, you know, my teacher, mark Sarvas would very much lecture us on the need to read like a writer and to read books that are going to help us become better writers. And like I said, we've talked about this. I do think that slipping some nutrition, some nutritious reading into your diet every once in a while is probably a good thing. But it does feel like homework. It does feel like work and sometimes, you know, it's difficult to want to do that. I have. I actually started a couple of books like The Bee Sting by Paul Murray. I was reading and it's actually really well written. It's a beautiful book and it was, nominated for awards. But then I didn't finish it'cause I was like, okay, cool, I'm done with this.

Kelton:

Well, I majored in advertising, and then sold products like Triscuit and Jello. So that's what my reading list is also going to look like. Should we talk about some books? I wanted to bring up a question that Anne Helen Peterson asked on culture study. If you don't subscribe to culture study on Substack, you really should. It's amazing. She interviews authors all the time, she asked this question, what are your three most formative books? this question really stopped me in my tracks because I was like, oh, formative, like up, formed opinions on writing, formed how I read, formed, what I read formed when I read. I was just like, I could not stop thinking about this. So I'm really curious, your approach to this question and what your books were.

Krisserin:

Yeah, I, I feel like I, you know, when you fill out a Good Reads profile, they ask you like, what are your favorite books? And you have your top five in there. So I was thinking about the books that I've had in there, but I read them so long ago, so I don't even know if I would consider them like my, my most formative books maybe. The first book that I. Really just devoured and, and stayed up late reading and, cried when it was over. When I finished the series and I was gonna miss the characters were, Louisa Mae Alcott's books, little women, little men, Joe's Boys. I really loved those stories and I read them in middle school, I wanna say. And then in college, I specialized in Victorian novels. So, a lot of the formative reading that I did in college were, you know, that like middle March and those types of books. Jane Eyre is definitely a favorite of mine. I love that book. I love all the Bronte sisters. I've read all of their novels. There's something really moody and, and moving about those books I don't reread books often, but I will reread Jane Eyre and all the books that I'm mentioning. I, I have and, and would reread. David Copperfield by Dickens is another one of my, I would say, most formative books. And I realized reading these books, these are, I mean, Jane Eyre is not a, a brick, but a lot of Victoria novels are these, like four part big Honker books. I really love stories that are just womb to tomb. Like, I want to live in this time and I wanna know how this person was born and I wanna see everything they went through in their entire life until they die. Those are the types of stories that I love. And then last I would say, Richard Yates Easter Parade. And, Richard Yates is actually most well known for Revolutionary Road, which is a great book, but I really enjoyed Easter Parade, and there's something about the dynamic of the, the family and that that novel, which, it's a little messy and it's really emotionally true and haunting that, made me feel like I could write things that were a little bit ugly and, a little bit more vulnerable and, honest. And then, you know, in terms of fantasy, the Earthsea Series by Ursula K. Le Guinne is a favorite of mine. I'm, I love her in general, but the, those books really touched me, so, yeah. What about you, Kelton? What are your formatted books?

Kelton:

We're going down a very different path here. Number one, true Confessions of Charlotte Doyle by Avi. Avi is like a classic children's book writer. And true confessions of Charlotte Doyle was about, a girl who's a ow away on a pirate ship. obviously as a child I was like, well, this is my calling. This is what I should be doing. I should be at the high seas. I should be wielding a knife and climbing sails. And I just, I loved that book because I felt like at the time so many books were about boys and when it was about girls, it was about it. They had adventures, you know, like I read Anna Green Gables and all that stuff, but nobody was getting into violence. Nobody was in like real trouble. And I wanted real trouble, and Avi gave me that. And so I loved that book. Secondary childhood favorite was Boxcar Children, because I

Krisserin:

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Before you move on to Boxcar Children, didn't you live that life? You went and lived on the High Seas,

Kelton:

well, I mean, yeah, I mean, kind of there was no violence involved. It was more of a

Krisserin:

was there not a little bit of intrigue, A little bit of

Kelton:

Oh yeah. Yeah. I guess there was a lot of like crime, but you know, it's like government crime. It

Krisserin:

yes

Kelton:

evasion and like running from customs, you know. But

Krisserin:

to.

Kelton:

I guess, But yeah, box car kids too, just because they were living my dream, of, you know, running away and, and, and living alone and like taking care of yourself as a child. I. Somewhere in there. I read Persuasion by, Jane Austen for the first time, which we'll get back to. But, when I was in my early twenties, I read David Eagle Men's Incognito, the Secret Lives of Brains and this, that book really cracked open my foray into nonfiction. I don't know if that book holds up. I don't know if it would be as impactful to me if I read it now. I read it at least 15 years ago. but it changed how I thought about and religion and behavioral psychology, which ended up becoming a big portion of my career and still is and so that book really ignited a path forward for me that I did not see. Sometime after that. I started reading Persuasion like once every two years. I still love that book. And then I would say in terms of like my, my fiction career that I am now pursuing Martha Wells All Systems Red is sort of what made me be like, yeah, I wanna write fiction. That really, that whole murder bot series spoke to me on such a deep level of like, it was fun, it was witty, it was dark, it was violent, and it was just, I loved it so much. Only made better by the fact that my nemesis at the time told me that murder bot reminded them of me. I was like, yeah, does Murder Bot is gonna be a series now on Apple tv. Alexander Skarsgard is Murder Bot, which I hate, but he's producing the series, which tells me that he read these books and saw himself in Murder Bot. And I like, I just can't hate anyone for identifying with that character because it's like I identify so deeply with that character that I'm like, okay, alright, I get it, I get it. I don't see Murder Bot as a man,

Krisserin:

Me neither. That's what I.

Kelton:

and does Ben Ben read that whole series and was like, that's, if anything, it's a woman. If it has to be man or woman, it's a woman. And, but like in my mind it's a character that is so gender fluid and like, so not Alexander Skarsgård. I'm like, this is not the role for you. You can produce it. You don't have to star in it. But obviously he identifies with the character and I saw the trailer and it looks amazing. So the rest of the cast looks really good. And so I'm, I'm very excited to see how they bring that to life. but I

Krisserin:

Okay.

Kelton:

books those are my big bucks.

Krisserin:

I don't know if I see Eric the Vampire as, um,

Kelton:

know.

Krisserin:

murder Bot. I also thought Murder Bot was a woman. But I guess we need to, it's 2025. We gotta step out of these gender norms. But, you know, Ryan Gosling is gonna be the main character. I forget the name of the main character in Project Hail Mary. He's producing that

Kelton:

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin:

So I guess if you have money and you wanna tell stories on screen, you can do whatever the hell you want. But you recommended, Martha Wells to me, I believe. And I loved those books too. And they're short, they're, they're novellas, right? They're not super full length novels, but Martha Wells does such an incredible job of character development.

Kelton:

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin:

really need a lot of, story'cause you just wanna follow Murder Bot around and see what happens, you know?

Kelton:

it's, so, if you have not read this series and you're into sci-fi, 10 Outta 10, my, one of my favorite sci-fi series of all times.

Krisserin:

Yeah. I don't know. Is Alexander Skarsgård going to play Murder Bot A little bit. Like, um, is it Marvin, the paranoid Android from Hitchhiker's guy to the Galaxy. This like gloomy, robotic type of cyborg. Okay, good.

Kelton:

the trailer. It's, it's fun. It looks fun.

Krisserin:

Are you a book movie person? Do you watch movies that have been adapted from books often? Because I am not one of those people, I don't like them.

Kelton:

I, I dunno. I mean, uh,

Krisserin:

I mean, that's the dream, right? Is like you write a book and it is so well that Hollywood comes calling and wants to make you a multimillionaire, but I've very rarely.

Kelton:

yeah. The reality is that most of the things I like are end, end up as TV shows

Krisserin:

Hmm.

Kelton:

movies.

Krisserin:

Hmm.

Kelton:

but also most of the books they turn into movies seem like in the past have seemed like dramas. seems to be a common through line of like short stories and novels that are adapted to movies were dramas.

Krisserin:

Mm-hmm.

Kelton:

that has, and then like comic books were adapted to

Krisserin:

Sure. Mm-hmm.

Kelton:

but, I'll see it if I love it. I loved Lessons in Chemistry and then I saw the trailer and was like, Nope. Don't wanna need, don't need to see it.

Krisserin:

Yeah, it's also like the casting makes a huge difference.

Kelton:

the huge difference. And you know what? Part of the casting in Lessons in Chemistry, I was like, Nope.

Krisserin:

The dog.

Kelton:

The dog, it was like, they, I just don't understand like the, there's such a clear description of this dog in that book, and then they're like, what if we didn't do that? What if we just had a totally different dog? And it's like, would you do that? It's not like, well, they're a much better act. Maybe they were a much better actor, but I, I just, I'm like, you can't mess up the dog.

Krisserin:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, listen, they they cast an incredible cast for Pachinko. Which is one of my favorite books of recent times. Lee Min Ho, who was the first actor in Kdramas that I saw and became obsessed with, and I still didn't watch that show. So

Kelton:

well,

Krisserin:

just not a big watcher, I guess. I don't watch a lot of movies.

Kelton:

made that adaptation of persuasion with Dakota Johnson and I saw the trailer for that and was like, no,

Krisserin:

No.

Kelton:

I want Pride and Prejudice 2005 if you're gonna make persuasion. Okay.

Krisserin:

Uh,

Kelton:

it true to the novel.

Krisserin:

I think Emma's a good novel for like a quirky adaptation. They've done a lot of really good adaptations of that book.

Kelton:

you go full quirk, if you do something different, like if we're talking like clueless level, sure.

Krisserin:

Sure,

Kelton:

the answer to your question is, will I blindly watch a movie or TV show because I read the book? No. I will watch the trailer and then decide if I want to engage with that as an independent form of media.

Krisserin:

Fair enough. I mean, for me it has to be Emma Thompson writing the screenplay for Sense and Sensibility with Ang Lee directing level. Good for me to wanna watch it,

Kelton:

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin:

and that is the pinnacle of adaptations for me. I can watch that movie over and over and over again. But it doesn't gonna get any better than Hugh Grant. Kate Winslet. Alan Rickman. Get outta here.

Kelton:

Yeah. Perfect Cast.

Krisserin:

Perfect. Beautiful music.

Kelton:

end of Perfect. Do you have any books you hated?

Krisserin:

Yeah, like a ton, a ton of books. But, and you know what? They're all the books that people read for book clubs that are Oprah's Book Club Pick, or Reese's Book Club. Pick like Celeste Ng's, Little Fires Everywhere. Like books like that. I'm sorry if anyone listening liked that book, but I, I really hate the, which is unfortunate for me and for someone who wants to be a published author, but I really hate these contemporary book club pick books that are out there. Like, I read A Silent Patient, hated it. Remember that SNL scan Hated that. Uh, girl On a Train. Gone Girl. All that shit. Like, get it outta here. I don't wanna read that stuff. I don't like it. No,

Kelton:

I mean, I listen, it's not like I'm reading those books most of the time, so what am I gonna say? Gone Girl, i'm surprised you didn't. Like, I thought

Krisserin:

yes,

Kelton:

was like, you know, read, read, readable.

Krisserin:

it's cheap thrills. It's, I, I, maybe I'm general, I'm definitely generalizing and I'm just being a hater, which is what I love to do. But, it's cheap thrills. It's not trusting the reader. It's, you know, like twists that you can see from a mile away that aren't surprising. And they just make me mad. They make me angry and I can tell, I can tell that I'm not gonna like a book by the fucking cover. I can tell if it's like, if the font is some kind of like you know, edgy font and an eyeball looking through a peephole or, you know, a dark, like red and blue or whatever. Like, you guys know what I'm talking about. It's not for me. It's not for me. Mm-hmm.

Kelton:

Well, you know what you like. I mean, I can tell by the blurbs on the back of the cover if I'm gonna like the book or not. When the blurb is like, I felt this in my bones. I've never been the same. It left me like an open wound on the end of a dirt road. I'm like, Nope, for this girl. Good luck getting fixed up. Happy to tell you about the books that I hate,

Krisserin:

Yeah, let's hear, let's hear the book that you hate.

Kelton:

to hear All by Men. And it turns out, I don't know, looking at this list if I actually hated these books or if I hated spending time with these characters. Actually, I can tell you for sure it's the latter.

Krisserin:

Okay.

Kelton:

these characters so deeply that it left me hating these books with a passion number one into the Wild by Jon Krakauer. I fucking hated that

Krisserin:

Oh yeah, that's the guy who like went off and died and yeah, for no fucking reason.

Kelton:

moron. You self-centered, like self important, unprepared. I know this was a real guy with a family. He was a fucking moron. I hated reading that book. I was like, how prepared could a person be? I just hate, hated it. Hated it. Jon Krakauer, great writer. Hated

Krisserin:

Well, so I don't know about what your algorithm serves you, but for some reason, my TikTok algorithm is decided I wanna watch videos of men on Mount Everest like dying. So I get a lot of that. Yeah. I don't know, but maybe it's like a more fascination of mine that I subconsciously wanna engage with because I do watch the videos, but it's the same. I look at these men, I'm like, you guys are fucking idiots. What are you doing? Go home. Stop polluting Mount Everest. You have families waiting for you. If you die, you deserve it. This is dumb. And all the comments are like, you know, the best thing about this is that you don't have to do it. You know, they spend all this money to go and do what? To do what? Why? It's just, I don't know. It's this, it's maybe, it's like a, a man thing that we just don't get.

Kelton:

I mean, I understand. First ascents, first descents, you know, incredible moments in climbing that haven't been done before, trying to do things without oxygen, like pushing the human form, but lining up for the Disney world, hike of Everest. I, what do you come on? Like you're that I don't, I don't understand that. True athleticism, real alpinism. Absolutely. I think it is incredible and it is so sad how many people die doing that. I'm like, now I, I live somewhere where I know those people. But the, the line for Everest, the cost to climate when you're just, when you're not dedicating your life to that type of athleticism, when you're just doing it to be like, I climbed it. It's like, to me that is the equivalent of Katie Perry in space. Like you should be embarrassed.

Krisserin:

And then now it's all for the gram. You know, it's gotten even worse because people are doing it for, to document it so they can put it on TikTok and all of that. I know it's horrible.

Kelton:

other men, I don't like Catcher in the Rye

Krisserin:

Yeah. Oh, so that was my like mainstay book where if I always said that if you talk to a, if you're, and I haven't dated because I've been married for almost 20 years, but if you talk to a guy and their favorite book is Catcher in the Rye, it means that they haven't read anything since high school

Kelton:

I

Krisserin:

and

Kelton:

also Holden Caulfield is just a, he's just a little twerp.

Krisserin:

he's a shit. Yeah.

Kelton:

a fucking twerp. And when men said that was their favorite book, I was like, oh, are you a little baby? Are you a little baby? That doesn't feel like anybody takes you seriously? Are you having a hard time in the real world? Fuck off. God, I hated that book.

Krisserin:

I did read that book really fast though, and that was very, I think that's one of the book first books that I just like read in a day,

Kelton:

well,

Krisserin:

you know?

Kelton:

JD Salinger incredible writer,

Krisserin:

Mm-hmm.

Kelton:

Uh, and then the last in this category for me is Confederacy of Dunes by John Kennedy, Toole. I can't, I can't spend time with that character. Can't stand him. Can't stand him. The only, the only woman who gets a notable mention on this list for me is, Suzanne Collins. Is that her name? Hunger Games?

Krisserin:

oh, you don't like Hunger Games?

Kelton:

Well, I just, when Katniss ended up with Peeta, I was like, she doesn't like him. I was like, I didn't realize this book was like just a another way to be like a dutiful woman. That's what that book ends on is

Krisserin:

Yeah,

Kelton:

being a dutiful woman. And I

Krisserin:

yeah,

Kelton:

that's not what I came for. I came for the bows and arrows and the badass, and now she's just doing the right thing. And I was like, get the fuck outta my library.

Krisserin:

yeah. It's true. It's true.

Kelton:

Okay.

Krisserin:

you reminded me of, a couple of books, that I actually like. One book that I hate with a Passion is The Road by Cormack McCarthy.

Kelton:

Oh, I've never read it, but obviously

Krisserin:

Oh.

Kelton:

it.

Krisserin:

I actually listened to it. I used to commute, oh god, like 80 miles a day earlier on in my career. And then later in my career, I did it again. I commuted from, Covina to Santa Monica. So it's a 40 mile one way drive. So I was listening to it in the car on a cd. This is how long ago it was that I had rented from the library. And I remember like, you listen to this, I was listening, or you read the book and like all these horrific things happen, like trigger warning if, if you don't like really like gross descriptions of things, but they eat a fetus in that book, like a woman. There's no food, there's no sunlight. It is just horrific apocalyptic writing, right? So the whole time you're listening to this little boy and his father trying to make it to California, try to make it to the west coast. And I'm literally like I am. I had gotten off the freeway and I pulled into like I was at the beach. So here I am having completed the same sojourn that these two characters had completed and it just fucking ends. There's no. Why to that book. So he just wrote this horrific novel with violence and pain and misery, and there was no reason for it. There's no ending, there's no lesson, there's nothing to take away from it. But the continuation of the misery that you just spent, however many hundreds of pages of reading, and I, I was screaming in the car. I was so mad. I was like, you guys fucking kidding me. I'm so angry. I hate that shit. And only a man, I'm sorry, I'm sorry to wear male listeners if we have any, but honestly, it's like the fucking hubris of Amanda be like, yeah, that's how it ends. Like I'm giving, I'm giving the reader nothing like fuck you Cormac McCarthy McCarthy. And men, this is like another thing. It's like men who say like Cormack McCarthy is like one of their favorite writers.

Kelton:

Uh,

Krisserin:

Big red flag.

Kelton:

men who say Charles Bukowski, I'm like, I

Krisserin:

Yeah. Bukowski's another one.

Kelton:

but it's like, if you list him as like, number one for you, I'm like, we

Krisserin:

Yikes.

Kelton:

only gonna, you are gonna die in a ditch this establishment. So, no thank you.

Krisserin:

I was thinking like, you're not long for this world, Lord. Oh, and then

Kelton:

need to talk about,

Krisserin:

just going,

Kelton:

I mean, there's, listen, we could have a whole, episode of like red flags on a man's bookshelf.

Krisserin:

oh

Kelton:

I even

Krisserin:

man.

Kelton:

liked Chuck Palahniuk's book that, was about like writing itself. I thought it was really interesting and good and well written. It's more about the fact that like, it's like men who like him, you're like, oh God, oh no.

Krisserin:

I don't know, have you read his short story guts?

Kelton:

Yes, I have.

Krisserin:

I had a teacher tell us to read it and I was like, again, the needless grotesque violence, that's the kind of stuff that I just don't have, I've never had the heart for and I still don't. And so, yeah, I think with like murder bot diaries, there's violence in that book. I'm okay with reading about violence, but it has to serve a purpose. It can't just be needless pain and suffering. I don't wanna read about that. We have enough of that in this world that I don't need to read about it, you know?

Kelton:

Yeah. Same. Same.

Krisserin:

Kelton, what books have you read this year? How many, what were they?

Kelton:

I have read probably six or seven books in completion. And I DNFed, three books. I DNFed, uh, a Romcom that just speaking to me. I DNFed North Woods by Daniel Mason because you, you shouldn't try to read that book while you have a small baby.

Krisserin:

Mm-hmm.

Kelton:

that book I didn't like in the beginning. And then the climax, the execution of the climax was so good. That I was like, you got me. And then of course her acknowledgements at the end made me love it. It was so interesting that it just, like, it flicked a switch for me where I was like, no, I love this book. I loved it. It was great.

Krisserin:

This was the book you read last week that you were like, I'm not gonna talk about it. I don't like it. Right.

Kelton:

And then, and, and then, you know, I didn't love the style. It's, person present tense, which I just have a really hard time reading. And, but it, it won me over. It won me over. I really liked it. And then, I'm also reading, it's funny, I read a House with Good Bones by t King Fisher, and then I'm reading, life would be perfect if I, if I lived in that house by Megan Daum. So both books about houses. life would be perfect if I lived in, that house is sort of old now. I think it's from 2010. It's either 2010 or 2015. And there's moments that are a little aged in the book, but it's the first memoir I've read in a really long time. And since it was especially about homes and architecture and places that we live, that really spoke to me. And she and I have, I, I'm only halfway through the book and she and I have already shared two places that we've lived. So I was like, wow, I wasn't expecting this. And that has been charming. So I'm trying to read a little more memoir right now. It's, you know,'cause I write, I, my essays are essentially memoir and so we, as we talked about, like you have to kind of write in your genre. I was like, what? Or reading your genre. I was like, well I'm not doing that for the newsletter, so I need to kinda expand. I'm reading. One other kind of memoir I read this year was Cougars on the Cliff by David E. Johnson and Maurice G. Hornocker. And this is because my mom and I had a book exchange where it was like, you have to read this book, fine, you have to read that book. More of like a book challenge if you will. But, she was a wildlife biologist in her career, and in her early career was tracking cougars in the wilderness. And so this book, cougars on the Cliff was emblematic of her experience and she knew some of these people in the book. So it was really interesting to read about like tangentially her work and

Krisserin:

What?

Kelton:

book

Krisserin:

Hold on. What a badass. Your parents both had really cool

Kelton:

Yeah, they had cool careers.

Krisserin:

There was no way that you weren't gonna end up in like a cabin in the middle of nowhere. Living

Kelton:

know

Krisserin:

in a remarkable life.

Kelton:

Destiny. Can you believe that? I wanted to be a banker?

Krisserin:

Yeah, because I know how money obsessed you're,

Kelton:

Yeah, I just wanted to make money. I was like, I'm gonna live in a penthouse in New York. I'm gonna be a banker.

Krisserin:

if Kelton was a character in Harry Potter, she'd be in Gringotts.

Kelton:

yeah, it's true. I would graduate from Slithering straight into gr Gus. And then, a book I wanna recommend,'cause it only took me an hour to read and you can check it out on Hoopla, is Summer of Dead Birds by Ali Liebegott. I'm not totally sure how to pronounce her last name, but the Summer of Dead Birds is a verse novel.

Krisserin:

Hmm.

Kelton:

it's kind of like poetry. It is poetry, but it reads like a novel and, it's a quick little PDF and it, this, if I'm gonna have someone like, kind of gut me in a book, if I'm gonna have to feel the feelings, I will take it in poetry and short form. And I thought that this was, it was just like really beautiful. So it's not something I would normally recommend, but I'm going to, so the summer of Dead Birds and then I read some romcoms, I read Margot's, got Money troubles and I have an expansive TBR list.

Krisserin:

Hmm.

Kelton:

But tell me what have you read this year and like why are you reading it?

Krisserin:

I literally this year, have only read Robin Hobb because the books, the Realm of the Elderlings series are all 800 pages plus. So

Kelton:

How

Krisserin:

this

Kelton:

there?

Krisserin:

think 16, I think. 16.

Kelton:

like, babe, it's been four months.

Krisserin:

Yeah. So I was looking at my 2024 list'cause I haven't actually pulled my 2025 list yet.'cause I really haven't read a lot this year. I read three of the books last year and so, and I've read ten total. I just last night finished the 10th book and so I've read seven of them this year. And then in between I've listened to some books, I listened to memoir. I really enjoy listening to, memoir when it's read by the author. And I'll listen to those typically either on Audible or Libby or Spotify. And the one that I listened to most recently was, I'm laughing because I'm crying by Young Mi Mayer who I think you, I actually think you would love her writing style because she's our age. She's your age. I think she's born the same year as you. And so she, and she lived in San Francisco at the height of the like, you know, 2010s millennial grunge era. And, she, I mean, her background's very unique in that she grew up. In Korea and in the Marshall Islands. And then she moved to the United States when she was like 19 and lived in San Francisco. But her writing style is lyrical, very much like yours. She was told in high school that she should never write and she should never be a writer, but it was a thing that she excelled at. So she kind of held herself back from doing it for a really long time. But then she talks about her, you know, her mother and, I think she like, even like lived, her mother lived in Alaska for a period of time and her dad was a pilot in Africa. Like she's got this crazy

Kelton:

Wow.

Krisserin:

family background. And now you would know her'cause she's very, you know, she goes viral on TikTok quite often. She's a comedian. She's really funny and the book itself is just beautifully written and so interesting. It's such a good memoir. So I highlight and she reads it and she does a beautiful job reading it. So I highly recommend people who like memoir to read or listen to that book. But yeah, I've literally only been reading Robin Hobb. I am fascinated by authors who, especially fantasy authors and not romantsy authors. It's a very different distinction because I feel like with a lot of romantic, we are being dropped into a world so we can watch people fall in love,

Kelton:

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin:

fantasy is very much more about the world building and the politics and not everything is fair. There's not always a happy ending for every character. Sometimes characters that we love die, you know, and, I think the ability to have that world in your head is so incredible, and it's something that I don't think I could ever do myself. So I just read it and marvel at how incredible these writers are. So yeah, that's why I'm, I'm reading it. It's very much escapism and again, it, there's something in me that loves understanding the womb to tomb of these characters, to see them born into a, into a world that I understand, and then watch them traverse it and, and fall down and get back up again and become remarkable in their own right. So I guess that's what draws me to it, even though it's not David Copperfield, it is, a story on a huge scale. So that's what I, I like to read. But then, you know, I sprinkle in a little bit of romance here and there and, I did read some. Romantasy and just like romcom at the end of last year that I really enjoyed, I read Long Live Evil, which was really, really fun, and I got really mad at the end because I don't read series that aren't complete. I hate reading a book and then finding out that the next book is not available to me. So I was a little bit frustrated by that. But this is a story about a woman who, she has like a, a terminal illness and she falls into the series that she's been reading. She starts living in the world of these characters and changes the story because she knows the story and she knows what's supposed to happen. She starts trying to change things and she's one of the villains in the story too. It's really fun. So if you're looking for something fun to read, I definitely recommend that. And then, ML Wang's Blood Over BrightHaven is a standalone fantasy novel that is so good. And there is a little bit of romance in it, and it's not, I don't remember, I don't wanna spoil it, but, the ending isn't a super happy ending, but it's fucking perfect. It is. So I, ugh, everyone should go read it. It's so good.

Kelton:

When you're done with Robin Hobb, do you find what you're gonna read next?

Krisserin:

I don't wanna think about being done with Robin Hobbs books.

Kelton:

Okay. Whatever. But how did, before Robin Hobb, how did you find what you were gonna read next?

Krisserin:

Um,

Kelton:

find Robin Hobb? Like that's what I'm looking for.

Krisserin:

yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,

Kelton:

How do you find your books?

Krisserin:

yes, yes, yes. So, content discovery is definitely difficult. I read Jacqueline Carey's, I love Jacqueline Carey's, Kushiel's Dart, that series. She had six books in that world. I went on Reddit and I was like, what to read after Jacqueline Carey's books. And then Robin Hobb came up a lot and there were a lot of other authors that came up a lot. And the thing about epic fantasy or that a lot of the books were published, I don't know if books I, besides. You know, Sanderson, I don't know if publishers are doing these like really long fantasy series anymore. So a lot of the books were published like 20 years ago. So that dates them a little bit. That's the hard thing, you know? Have you ever tried to read old sci-fi?

Kelton:

Yeah.

Krisserin:

Yeah. Sometimes you're like, ugh. This is very dated. Like, it feels like you can feel the writers that pulled inspiration from the book, but you know that you're a little bit beyond it and it doesn't feel good reading it, you know?

Kelton:

Yeah.

Krisserin:

so that's how I do it, is I try and find, I try to triangulate based on the writers that I really love, other writers that are recommended, and then I, I give it a read. And if I am not feeling it in the first a hundred pages, I drop it. But yeah. And there's also like the mainstays, I did try to, I read Mistborn. And then I started reading the second book. And here's the thing, it doesn't matter how good it is, he's still a, a book written by a man.

Kelton:

I liked Sanderson's, Mistborn series, but I hear you. I like that you're using Reddit to find books. I do recommend people use Reddit when they're looking for books. I recommend Reddit for, if you're looking for anything at this point. it is my, my late night Safe Haven when I'm looking at the interior design subreddits or the Boston Terrier subreddits. But when I'm looking for new books now. If it's not Reddit or just like Googling, like what's good in magical realism, I'm getting most of my recommendations from other substack and then reading a lot of those Substack books. so my TVR list has a, has a bunch of people. These are all books I'm like waiting to come into my library, JT Ellison's a very bad thing. Olivia mentors such a bad influence. I'm reading right now, Amy Marie Turner's, voyage of the Pleides, I

Krisserin:

Mm-hmm.

Kelton:

It's pronounced.

Krisserin:

It is.

Kelton:

thank you. Thank you. My well-read friend. So, you know, now I'm kind of like, what's everybody writing? I read their other stuff. I read the short form. Let's go long and then everybody, you know, on those newsletters is constantly recommending things. So I'm picking things up lot. I'm listening to a book called American Bulk, is about like hoarding and consumerism, that was recommended on culture study right now. So yeah, it's a there, you know, now I'm, I feel like I'm overwhelmed with recommendations. My TBR, list, both waiting to come into the library and stacked in my kitchen. It's like 40 books.

Krisserin:

Yeah, it's like when Do you ever have the time? When do you read typically?

Kelton:

I read when, W three is doing independent play. So I kind of around a book with me when I'm parenting, so that like, whenever he's like fully distracted by something, I just dive right into the book. Um, I read a little bit at night sometimes after he's asleep. It depends how tired I am. but that's kind of it. It's like when I have him, it's when I have him, I'm either a, he's either asleep next to me or playing next to me. That's when I read right now.

Krisserin:

Fair enough.

Kelton:

I don't listen to books. I listen to podcasts.

Krisserin:

Hmm. Yeah. I only listen to books when I don't have any podcasts to listen to. Like when I've kind of listened through all of them, you know?

Kelton:

Driving in your life than I do.

Krisserin:

That's true. I do. I'm in the car a lot.

Kelton:

two or three times a week maybe.

Krisserin:

Ugh, jealous every day. Multiple times a day. Yeah. Picking up the kids, dropping off the kids, taking the kids to activities. Well, yeah, I mean, I read at night. I typically will, like, I have to read before bed. And then I like to read in the morning. I like to start my morning with coffee and my book, so I'm not just like diving into my phone. And, otherwise I will read when I have a moment where I don't have anything to do and I can relax. And on the weekends I'll read quite a bit. So yeah, I read, I try to, I don't really watch TV at all anymore

Kelton:

Wow.

Krisserin:

TV or movies. The only time I really watch things is like when I'm putting my makeup on or like getting ready for bed or whatever. I'll like put my phone there, like watch some stupid reality TV show. But, or if I wanna spend time with Boyan, like, we'll, we're watching Top Chef right now. We'll go sit on the couch together. But I don't, yeah, I just don't, new episode today, I don't, I don't think I have the like. Attention span to watch anything anymore. Isn't that horrible? Like, I can sit and read fine, but if I have, if I'm like looking at the tv, I want my phone in my hands, it's really bad. I don't like it. I know,

Kelton:

is targeting

Krisserin:

I know. The second screen people.

Kelton:

Ugh.

Krisserin:

Yeah, I was gonna say in terms of, finding books really quickly is that I do find a lot of books on book talk, but I don't trust the recommendations very often because I don't know how much of that content is actually, real anymore, you know?

Kelton:

isn't just Spon Con?

Krisserin:

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Kelton:

I have no idea. I'm only just starting to experiment with TikTok, as you

Krisserin:

I saw that. Yeah. So it did better on TikTok, right? The content that you posted of.

Kelton:

made for the listeners, I made a reel or a video. I should, I made a video. I made a video that I posted on Instagram, and then I, I made it into the exact same video for TikTok. I didn't download it from Instagram and upload it to TikTok, like the video was created on Canva and then uploaded to both platforms. And I, it just, it did so much better on TikTok, where I have 50,000 followers on Instagram, none of them engaged with anything, because I'm shadow banned. And then on TikTok, I have 400 and it outperformed. And so I was like, well, what am I doing on Instagram? I've been trying to get outta jail on there for years, and it's not working. It doesn't work. it's, I, I got followed by way too many bots and like my, my account is dead. And so now I gotta figure out how TikTok works. I find TikTok so overwhelming. It's like always making noise. It's like you can't go anywhere in the app where it's not just like yelling at you.

Krisserin:

Oh, we're old.

Kelton:

Yes, yes. I am old. I'm gonna be 40 this year. I'm young. I'm a spring chicken. I look hot today, so whatever. TikTok, I'll figure it out. I will figure it out.

Krisserin:

You will. I know you will. All right. Well, Kelton, we gotta do better. I mean, I'm including myself. We gotta do better this week. What are we gonna do? What's our goal?

Kelton:

sorry. My goal is to make money.

Krisserin:

Okay.

Kelton:

Listen, I have, I do, this coming week, I have one promising meeting. A person like wants to hire me for something and I just need to make sure that they can pay an amount that is decent. And if that person says yes to that amount, then I can do some novel working. contingent, my

Krisserin:

Okay.

Kelton:

are contingent.

Krisserin:

Could you, when you go on a walk, could you do some, like auditory exploration of your book? Could you work in your, your novel into that a little bit?

Kelton:

yeah, yeah, that's a good idea. I can do it on the walks. As long as it's not like sleeting this week, I can do some, narrating.

Krisserin:

Yeah. Okay. Well, okay. That's my assigned goal for you is if you go on a walk, try and work on the novel. All right. Gimme a goal.'cause I, I'm at a loss. I'm just waiting right now for my.

Kelton:

Yeah. Read those books.

Krisserin:

All of them. No. Come on. You gotta gimme a little bit more of a, okay, that's not achievable.

Kelton:

Read Luster, because Lusters gonna take you like a day and a half.

Krisserin:

Yeah. Luster is 227 pages. Okay. Okay.

Kelton:

And then I want then, I want you to do, Emma Cline, is that her name? Emma Cline.

Krisserin:

McCline

Kelton:

Yeah. Then read

Krisserin:

focus book is 289 pages or so.

Kelton:

think you can read both those books this week. I've read two books this week.

Krisserin:

Listen lady,

Kelton:

I have a baby. You read those books. I'm saving Big Swiss because you've technically already read that one.

Krisserin:

I didn't read the whole thing. I didn't finish it. I read like, I read like a hundred pages of it, but it was good.

Kelton:

okay.

Krisserin:

Okay. But, okay, so here's the thing. I'm gonna read them for what I need to, like, I got the comps, I'm gonna read them and for what? For what am I gonna get out of them besides enjoyment,

Kelton:

How to write query letter because you're gonna write your next query letter. Okay. Listen,

Krisserin:

wanna,

Kelton:

you. We're

Krisserin:

I don't.

Kelton:

next week. I'm dragging you down. You are gonna write that query letter and you're gonna know what your comps are about.

Krisserin:

Alright, lady.

Kelton:

why

Krisserin:

Okay.

Kelton:

comps. Okay?

Krisserin:

Okay. All right. Fine, fine. All right. Fine, fine. Okay, fine. Next week we are gonna talk about ai. So buckle up for that conversation. Can't

Kelton:

Can't wait

Krisserin:

It'll be a doozy and yeah, you know where to reach us. Email us at officialpenpalspod@gmail.com. Shoot us a note. We'd love to hear from you. You can follow us@penpalspod on TikTok and Instagram, you know, if, if that's your fancy. And yeah, have a great week. Happy writing.

Kelton:

Happy writing. Good luck. Bye.

Krisserin:

Bye.

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Kelton Wright

Co-host
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Krisserin Canary

Co-host