Who Are We Writing For—And Who Are We Reading?

Krisserin and Kelton barely make it to record — 15 minutes late despite trying to be 30 minutes early — and that kind of week sets the tone. Kelton's survived two weeks of Colorado spring break without daycare, while Krisserin's mom is in town and the two have been watching movies and running around together. A conversation about Hamnet opens up a question that runs through the whole episode: who is a book actually made for?

That question gets personal when Krisserin responds to a listener letter from Sarah — a writer and loyal listener — who gently pushed back on her offhand comment about not reading male authors. Krisserin takes the feedback seriously, sits with it, and comes back with something more honest and nuanced than the original remark: not every writer is for every reader, and that's okay. When she's reading for pleasure and escape, she knows where she reliably finds what she's looking for. Kelton weighs in with her own reading year and they find their way to something they both actually believe.

The accountability check-in brings the theme back around to their own writing: the what-if exercise from Ramona Ausubel's Unstuck unlocked something for both of them, Krisserin shares feedback on her short story from her mom and from Kelton, and Kelton floats a summer writing project that is quietly one of the most charming ideas they've discussed on the pod.

Books Mentioned:
- Hamnet by Maggie O'Farrell
- The Ministry of Time by Kaliane Bradley
- Starling House by Alex Harrow
- The Night Circus by Erin Morgenstern
- Annihilation by Jeff VanderMeer
- Dungeon Crawler Carl by Matt Dinniman
- James by Percival Everett
- Unstuck by Ramona Ausubel

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Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Transcript

Kelton 0:00

Hi Chris.

Krisserin 0:01

Good morning, Kelton. We made it,

Kelton 0:04

We

Krisserin 0:04

it al

Kelton 0:05

We

Krisserin 0:05

it almost didn't happen.

Kelton 0:07

we had scheduled to meet today, 30 minutes earlier than normal, and we ended up meeting 15 minutes later than normal.

Krisserin 0:19

Uh, not for lack of want and trying, but yeah, we, we made it happen. We. How was your week?

Kelton 0:29

Abysmal.

Speaker 0:31

I'm Krisserin Canary. And I'm Kelton Wright. Follow our quest to publish our first novels from first drafts, to query letters through inevitable rejections

Speaker 2 0:39

and hopefully eventual success

Speaker 0:41

from California to

Speaker 2 0:42

Colorado. This is pen pals.

Kelton 0:44

It was a fine week, but did I accomplish literally any of my goals? No, because we didn't have daycare and we didn't have any childcare, and I had a huge project at work and it just like nothing happened and in my to finish my library books, I was like, I am just going to figure out what makes the Ministry of time so good. And I am on like page 186. I'm over halfway through the book and I'm just like, what are we doing here? I was just downstairs. I had like four minutes until you were ready to record and I was reading the book and it did one of those things that I hate in a book where it reveals. Something really disappointing like a casual way that's going to come later. Like the narrator kind of is like, nice that someone gets to know this person now that they're gone. And I was like, what? You want me to keep reading this book knowing my favorite character is dead? I have like over a hundred more pages to get through. Knowing this character is dead. What is the point?

Krisserin 1:59

Gosh,

Kelton 2:00

gonna, um, I'm gonna dnf it. I think the

Krisserin 2:03

really?

Kelton 2:03

good. I think the character development is amazing, but I'm gonna go to the internet and ask for a summary and read book reviews and return that book.

Krisserin 2:11

Geez. You know, it's, it's funny you mention that. I watched Hamnet, the movie this week. I'm watching all these movies now that my mom's in town because she'll watch them with me. So I was like, we watched Sinners, Zootopia Two and Hamnet, and tonight we're gonna watch Wither Heights. You're just like

Kelton 2:29

Amazing.

Krisserin 2:30

the movies. I can't, uh, I won't watch, by myself or with my husband. I don't know. Have you, you haven't read Hamnet, have you, or seen the movie or anything?

Kelton 2:40

I mean, I know a lot about it.

Krisserin 2:42

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it was very popular. Obviously Academy Award-winning and everything, we watched the movie and then on Peacock they had the like behind the movie 18 minute mini documentary and halfway through, my mom's like, I can't watch this. She's like, this is so self-aggrandizing, I can't. And she just like got up and walked away and I watched the rest of it. It was one of those, like the director, she's just such a genius. And then the cinematographer is a genius and everyone's a genius and you know, like very much, artists talking about their art and that is actually how I felt about Hamnet. Where, similar to a ministry of time, is this book for the reader or is it for other writers? Or is it for the writer to flex on skill or craft or whatever they wanna do to seem clever or smart, or whatever it is. When I finished watching him, there were certain scenes that were just so dramatic and certain things that were just so on the nose, and while there were some things in that movie that I was like really appreciative of, and really enjoyed, there were some parts of it when I was like, come on, who is this for? It felt like they made that movie for themselves, which is great.

Kelton 4:00

Yeah, I, I worry with Ministry of Time that it's similar to the possession of all the Diaz, where I'm like, am I only like three or four pages away from when the momentum kicks in? You know, like, I'm, I'm so,'cause I, the writing is good and the characters are great and, you know, despite the fact that she has, told me my favorite character is dead, am, I do worry that like, am I missing out on something super fun that's like 10 pages away? and I just, I'm overdue on the night circus and I wanna read the other valley and I just unless someone gives me a compelling reason, I've gotta move on.

Krisserin 4:40

I think the Night Circus is a nice next book to go to because it's so fun to read and it's so fast and you'll really have a good time. I feel like Erin Morgan Stern wrote that book for her readers and not for herself, so. Well, speaking of that, we got a listener letter that I feel like, well, I wanna talk about, and bring up and discuss a little bit. And I also want Kelton, I want you to gut check me a little bit on how I'm feeling about, this listener letter, which by the way, I just wanna start out by saying, anytime we get a listener letter, good, bad, or whatever, we're so happy because it means people are responding and listening to the podcast. And this one was a little critical. There was some feedback in it for me. In particular, and this is not the first time that we've gotten actually like some feedback from listeners. So we, we welcome it. We are, you know, we're open-minded, open-hearted people. I will say though, when I read this, um, I, I, like, my immediate reaction was not to be an open-hearted, open

Kelton 5:40

Um.

Krisserin 5:41

minded person. But it was presented, the feedback was presented gently and with generosity. And so I, being the Libra that I am like took a beat and I've been thinking about it a lot'cause I wanna see both sides. Like I wanna understand other perspectives. But basically, the email was from a listener named Sarah and she wanted to push back on the statement that I made saying that I don't read male writers.

Kelton 6:06

I feel like I should tell the listener too, that Sarah's a friend of mine, and a writer. So she's a loyal listener. So I love, I love that Sarah jumped in the inbox to be like, now listen.

Krisserin 6:17

Yeah, but also Kelton responded back with, that was Chris and it wasn't me. I read plenty of male writers and it was like, thanks, Kelton.

Kelton 6:26

I also, I had to text you immediately because I thought she just wrote that email to me and I was just like, oh, I didn't say that. You know, that wasn't

Krisserin 6:34

That wasn't me.

Kelton 6:35

people in the prior week had messaged me on Instagram to say that we sounded identical.

Krisserin 6:41

You and I.

Kelton 6:42

so, yes. And so

Krisserin 6:43

Oh,

Kelton 6:44

head that people can't tell us apart, and I was like, wasn't me?

Krisserin 6:49

that is so funny.

Kelton 6:51

Funny'cause like at the same time I was reading like a horribly problematic male author and I was just like, I don't know if that's better.

Krisserin 6:58

Yeah. Well then, so we got her, her feedback, and then I was listening to my mom's here and she was, watching our interview with, Mona and I had set it up for her and I was standing around with her thinking about this email and our new episode opened and I talked about how, sometimes I think the world would be better placed if there were no men in it. And I was like, great, great. I'm just gonna come off as this big old misandrist.

Kelton 7:22

Tell

Krisserin 7:22

but yeah.

Kelton 7:23

says.

Krisserin 7:23

Okay. So back to the email that, that Sarah sent. So she said basically she's writing to gently push back on, my offhanded comment in which I said, I don't, that's why I don't read male authors. And the suggestion was that it was a bit of a generalization and reductive. The point that she also made is that, you know, there are a lot of really good contemporary male authors, which I don't argue. And that there is a male reading epidemic. Men aren't reading for pleasure. And, statements like what I made could be discouraging for, you know, men who wanna break into the publishing industry. So I took a beat and I, I mean like all of my like. Rampant feminism, flared up and I took a beat and I tried to think about it. And you know what I will say is this. I've read a ton of male authors and, and recently I don't not read a book because it's written by a man. But in the tiny amount of time that I have in my day when I'm gonna escape, into a book, I wanna pull from. Usually a book written by women. That is what I prefer to read. It is the perspective that I enjoy. I don't dive into stories and have to be thinking about like, and this happens often. There's so many books written by men that I have put down and not finished because I'm like not appreciative of how they write women characters or. The perspective that they're bringing to the story that I just don't agree with. It doesn't agree with my values and the way that I see the world. And so that's just what I choose to read. And I think that there is a reader for every writer, and that's okay if it's, if, if I am not every male. Authors reader. I will push back though gently to say that I don't think that men lack encouragement to write. I feel like there are so many men that get opportunities that a lot of women writers just don't, and they are historically more published and more awarded and, and all of those things. So, you know, this podcast, this little hour that Kelton and I spend together, it's. You know, a safe space for us to gripe about what it is to be a writer a mother and a caretaker, and all of the responsibilities that come with that. 90% of our listenership is women. I would say probably more than that. Um, if I had all of the metrics and I just don't think that men are tuning in to listen to us talk about our periods and gripe about our husbands. We're like trying to get our novels published. So, I mean, I, I will definitely try and be a little bit more thoughtful when I'm saying things that disparage and, and entire gender. But in, in, in totality, I will say that I defend my statement saying that I don't read a lot of male writers because, you know, um. That's just how it is. That's what I choose to do. That's my opinion, and that's what I, where I choose to spend my time and my energy. Are there male writers that I love? Yes. Like, you know, have I read James by Percival Everett? No, but I will because it's supposed to be a really good book. It's not gonna deter me just because it's written by a man, I guess is what I wanna say.

Kelton 10:35

Yeah. And, and you know, when we got the email, it did make me look at my TBR pile to be like, what ha am I naturally gravitating toward? And most of the books that I, I'm, I'm not looking at books to be like, who wrote it? You know? I'm like, does this sound like a book that I wanna read? And. Over this year, I think that I have read 13 books by Women and there's been two books by men. And one was Jeff VanderMeer, uh, annihilation Really Good. And then one is still in my TBR pile. And that's, dungeon Crawler Carl by Matt Deman and like. Those kind of fit my genre, my vibe and everything else just ended up being by a woman. And there's some classics in my, in my library, you know, like I'll read a little Brandon Sanderson, I read some Peter Heller. You know, I love Terry prt. I'm still reading Meal Gaman.

Krisserin 11:36

I know.

Kelton 11:36

I know. Ugh, God. But it

Krisserin 11:39

This is the problem

Kelton 11:41

But it's, I know like that,

Krisserin 11:43

case in

Kelton 11:44

to the,

Krisserin 11:45

case in point.

Kelton 11:47

Um, but you know, it's like, I, I do, I read also ex pretty much exclusively for pleasure.

Krisserin 11:55

Yeah.

Kelton 11:55

I will pick up a book where I'm like, I wanna understand this craft a little better. But the pleasure for me is the, the view I have that often is just like, it comes from a, a woman's perspective. So, uh, like whenever you see those reels where they're like, Anthony Bridgeton was written by women, you're like, yeah, that's why I'm obsessed with him. You know, that's why it works.

Krisserin 12:21

I know, I know. Heated rivalry written by a woman, you know.

Kelton 12:26

It was a good email.

Krisserin 12:27

I'm, I welcome the feedback. I welcome it. I think that, you know, I'm an English literature major. I filled up my tank with

Kelton 12:36

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin 12:36

written by men.

Kelton 12:38

Yeah.

Krisserin 12:39

I read Canterbury Tales, uh, bale Wolf, Milton, oh my gosh, Tenison, like I've read it all now. I wanna read for pleasure. I wanna read about, you know, witches in the forest and the fair folk and all of that fun stuff. And I do, I mean, I, I am such a sci-fi fan, so I do still read a lot of, you know. A lot of sci-fi is written by men too. So anyhow, thank you, Sarah.

Kelton 13:10

witches in the woods, I, even though I did not finish any of the library books, I had checked out, I checked out another book this week. I checked out Alex Harrows Starling House,

Krisserin 13:24

Oh no. Oh

Kelton 13:24

out like three years ago, but I haven't read that one

Krisserin 13:27

yeah. I recommended that book to you.

Kelton 13:29

yet. Finally, finally made it to like being at the library when I was at the library,

Krisserin 13:34

Nice. It's, I really liked, I really enjoyed that book

Kelton 13:38

I

Krisserin 13:38

it. You know what though? I think it's gonna make you think of Mexican, Gothic a little bit.

Kelton 13:45

I read the description and I was like, all right, I mean, I'm writing a gothic, let's see what the girlies are doing.

Krisserin 13:51

Yeah. Yeah.

Kelton 13:53

Of that, like, listen, my goal last week was to do, was crazy, like rereading it. Now I'm like, I knew what was I what?

Krisserin 14:00

It was very ambitious.

Kelton 14:03

I did have the newsletter pre-written, but like we just got. We just got fucking clammed by the kid and it was an intense week and I have forgotten that we had to take him to a dentist appointment. And for us that means four hours in the car and woods gets car sick now. So it meant four hours of like vomiting in the car and like getting yelled at by the dentist because he nurses all night. So he has cavities. Like there's just like Monday was a wash and then, you know, one of my clients was just like, we need this stat. And I was just like, I'm busy. So, you know, I didn't write anything. I didn't finish a library book. I did read your short story.

Krisserin 14:46

I did read my short story. My mom also read my short story.

Kelton 14:49

Tell me her feedback.

Krisserin 14:52

I really appreciated her feedback. So first of all, I have to say that. A lot of, Marian, like the main character. My short story is pulls from stories of like my mom's childhood. My mom is the eldest of eight children. And, you know, in a family like that, the first kid has a lot of caretaking that they have to do of the other kids. And then she basically. You know, she had a very strict upbringing and then she watched as her parents, like loosened those restrictions for every kid after her. And they got to do a lot of things that she didn't get to do. So when she read the story the first time, she was like, talk about having an assassin at the table when you have a writer in the family. She's like, Ugh. She's like, so much of it was so familiar to her. And I asked her, I'm like, is it, is that. Did that bother you? Is that a bad thing? And she, she said no. Like, I think you handled it well. But, despite, like there was a lot of, as I was reading through it, there was a lot of like typos and things. But her, her thing was that. She would like to see more of Marian's character flushed out. Her whole thing is that she doesn't wanna be a caretaker for anyone anymore. She just wants to, to think about herself because she lived so much of her life dedicated to other people. And so a lot of it is. Not driven by her wants, but her lack of want. And so just having a more fully fleshed out Marian, like she's a librarian, what books does she love? A little bit more of her. And then she thought that the husband character could have been more of an asshole,

Kelton 16:27

Yeah.

Krisserin 16:29

but

Kelton 16:29

Yeah.

Krisserin 16:30

she, she enjoyed it.

Kelton 16:32

Yeah, when I read your story again, it really made me feel like I'm such a editor and not a, like, holistic story editor.

Krisserin 16:43

Hmm.

Kelton 16:43

Um, you know,'cause like my, my main feedback was like, well, she got like really like abused by this person. She would've probably had her nose broken. The fundamental structure of her face would've changed. So.

Krisserin 16:55

You know, it's funny is that my mom thought that the husband abused Marian, as her, his spouse. And I was like, no, he just enjoyed beating the crap out of this girl. But I'm gonna use your suggestion. And that her like face gets kind of changed.

Kelton 17:12

if there's something with like, he enjoyed it so much because it was Marian, like it

Krisserin 17:19

Hmm.

Kelton 17:20

to like do what he'd always dreamt of

Krisserin 17:22

Ooh, I like that. I like that.

Kelton 17:25

If, if that plays into like the asshole card. Anyways, we're talking a lot about a story you guys haven't

Krisserin 17:29

Sorry guys. We didn't get a chance. It's been so crazy that we didn't, I just got like a, I loved it and we didn't get a chance to talk about it, so.

Kelton 17:38

Ugh. But it was good. I'm so excited for you to submit it. I, was was your, let's talk about your goals'cause you were

Krisserin 17:46

Yeah.

Kelton 17:46

times.

Krisserin 17:48

Yeah. And I did, I was thinking about you because I wrote, but it was like, not a lot, you know, I think I, I sat down to write three times. I wrote about a thousand words. I sat down and did line edits on the short story, so I count that as writing'cause I sat down and like reread it and went through like with a fine tooth comb. And then I did write 25 what ifs for my book based on our conversation with Mona last week. Yeah. And I can see what she means by 20 I was like having trouble thinking of things and it really unlocked something in my brain that made me be a little bit more creative. And I did get something out of that exercise that I was appreciative of. So I accomplished my goals. I just, I. It was, a very tough week for me in that I walked away feeling like I didn't really generate a lot of new material, and I'm still feeling my way around in the dark with the story, but it's okay. Like I think I did as much as I possibly could have done.

Kelton 18:54

I, making me remember that I did do some work. I wrote what ifs too. I was like, wait a second. Hold on a moment. I wrote 10 what ifs for my story and I, yeah, similar to you. I was like, this is an wildly generative exercise and very freeing, because of the framing. The just like the very what if ness of it.

Krisserin 19:17

Mm-hmm.

Kelton 19:18

have to happen. I'm not committing to this, but what if this crazy thing happened? Um,

Krisserin 19:22

It's not, unlimited, right? Like you have a stopping and starting point, which is great because it feels like I can do 25. And actually, I feel like a lot of the little exercises in unstuck are great for people who don't have time to sit down and actually generate words. It gives you an opportunity to think about your book in a small way. That is productive. That feels like, okay, I, I couldn't sit down and give all of my energy to writing new material, but this is helping me think about it in a new way. And when I do sit down, I have something that I can, refer back to and is helpful. So, yeah, I'm glad we both did it. That's great.

Kelton 20:03

I love that.

Krisserin 20:05

I will say though, I'm really enjoying short stories. There is something about how, how, like you can get into the story on such a, word by word, sentence by sentence level that you cannot do with a novel just because there's so much content that you have to be managing and so many storylines and, and things that you have to keep up in the air, but with a short story because it is a controlled amount of time and space. I am really enjoying being able to be very precise about what I wanna say and really polishing the stone to perfection. And I, yeah, I'm just really enjoying it. So I don't know when I'll submit it'cause I feel like I just wanna play with it as much as possible. But I'm really, I never imagined myself as writing a short story collection, but I would like to write some short stories. Yeah. And get them published. Yeah. Yeah. I'm really, I'm really liking it. So maybe I'm a short fiction writer. I never thought I was,'cause my Gusan novel was 140,000 words when I finished the first draft.

Kelton 21:15

wow, we, you got a lot of darlings to kill.

Krisserin 21:19

Yeah. Yeah. I gotta gotta kill him. So, but yeah, it. You know, an okay week. I'll take it. I'll take it.

Kelton 21:29

Good.

Krisserin 21:30

Yeah.

Kelton 21:30

I'll take daycare again.

Krisserin 21:33

Geez. Why does Colorado have two weeks of spring break? That seems excessive?

Kelton 21:39

I don't know if that is Colorado as a whole or if that is directly tied to being a mountain town where the whole town closes down for off season. Like we. We went into town to get groceries and a man knocked on my window to be like, excuse me, sorry. Are there any restaurants open in the whole town? I was like, yeah, there. There's literally one, like all 60 restaurants in this area, closed down for all of off season. There is one restaurant that stays open.

Krisserin 22:14

Wow.

Kelton 22:15

so I, and like the school is off for two weeks and I think part of that is like a lot of people aren't working and so

Krisserin 22:22

Hmm.

Kelton 22:22

let's just give everybody time to get out of the mountain and like go live their life and go do stuff. so I appreciate it in that way. It's just challenging. At this age when it, there's like, I can't reason with this child, he's not gonna go play by himself outside, you know, like he needs one of us with him at all times.

Krisserin 22:42

Mm.

Kelton 22:43

I am the breadwinner. So, you know, Ben has just basically been like caretaking the whole time. And I've had crazy work projects, which I'm grateful for. I'm happy I'm working, but it just, uh, slowed us down. But good news. Next week, next Monday when this comes out, um, woods is going to start going to daycare three full days a week.

Krisserin 23:05

Wow. So when does that, full days means what time is pickup?

Kelton 23:09

That means that most mornings Ben will drop him off. They'll leave the house around 8 45. And most days I will have to leave to pick him up around three 15.

Krisserin 23:23

Oh, okay. So that's a, that's a good chunk of time.

Kelton 23:26

It's a good chunk.

Krisserin 23:27

Yeah.

Kelton 23:27

there for like six or seven hours or something. We love his daycare yeah. I like, can't wait. I can't wait.

Krisserin 23:36

I can't wait for you.

Kelton 23:37

I love him. I.

Krisserin 23:40

I know I, there's always that kind of like. Push and pull between needing to have your own time and also wanting to spend time with a kid who's only gonna be this age for such a short amount of time. And then feel feeling guilty about it.

Kelton 23:56

Yeah. I, you know what made me feel amazing though is this morning when I was getting him dressed, he was like, woods, go to school today. And I was like, no, no school today. And he was just like, oh.

Krisserin 24:08

Oh, okay.

Kelton 24:09

Yeah, he had been like looking forward to it and I was just like, oh, amazing. Cool.

Krisserin 24:14

take it.

Kelton 24:15

That's awesome, bud.

Krisserin 24:16

That is awesome. What a kid. What a great kid.

Kelton 24:20

Yeah,

Krisserin 24:20

wait to meet him.

Kelton 24:22

I know you're gonna, you're gonna think he's a kid.

Krisserin 24:25

You're gonna think he's a kid. You're gonna think he's a kid.

Kelton 24:29

You

Krisserin 24:30

Um.

Kelton 24:30

thinking about, speaking of submitting short stories, and I know this is kind of, I know that something murky in this for me, but I was sort of like, I have all those sample chapters I wrote for the proposal. I was just like, those are dialed and they're good.

Krisserin 24:47

Mm-hmm.

Kelton 24:48

could I submit one of those somewhere

Krisserin 24:52

Yeah.

Kelton 24:52

to try and like keep the nonfiction proposal? Percolating in my

Krisserin 24:58

Hmm.

Kelton 24:59

Which also made me think about, I wanted to run this idea by you because, husbands in their way. My husband was not fully supportive of this idea. I had an idea for a summer series for Shangri Logs. I've written a lot, obviously about place and about where I live, and occasionally I have touched on like the 15 places I have lived before this. And I wanted to spend the summer, summer Sundays writing. Love letters to the places I lived prior and then actually sending them to the address. I wouldn't say it's from me, it would just be like anonymous, to the residents of foresee, know, and be like, I lived in this apartment 15 years ago.

Krisserin 25:43

I love that idea.

Kelton 25:45

Broadway star and I lived with this person. And this is what we did in the apartment. And this is what we did spatially with the furniture.'Cause most of the places I've lived, have been incredibly transient places. And so hundreds of people have lived in those exact houses and apartments. And so there is this nature of like you've shared this space with so many people before you and after you, and you will never know them. And I love this idea of painting a picture of this is how I lived in it in 2006, and this is how I lived in it in 2011. And Ben was like, well what's the point of doing that if you're not gonna start a correspondence with that person? Who cares? And I was like, okay. I get, I agree. Some people are gonna get that letter and be like, this is fucking weird. But other people are gonna get that letter and be like, I love this. Yes.

Krisserin 26:39

I think it's really cool. It also makes me think, you know, places hold memory and, I'm just imagining it from a fiction perspective if you were writing it from the POV of the apartment. And all of the people that come in and out of it and all of the lives that you see, occupy that space. I think that, it would be really cool to receive a letter from someone and, and be like. Is the, the heating system still kind of wonky? Is the top right burner still broken? Is the window to the balcony still sticking? I think that's really cool and I think it builds a sense of community in the world that we need now to understand that, that we have, more touch points and more in common than we think. People are craving interconnectedness. And I just love that idea and I think it's such a nice and generous idea. And maybe they do write back. You have a PO box, so if they write back and you hear from them, great.

Kelton 27:41

That was the only thing was like I didn't wanna include

Krisserin 27:45

Oh, but you could also, are you gonna publish it on Schenker logs? You could say like, this, this was, well, then there's a way for them to get back in touch if they want.

Kelton 27:53

trying really, really hard to figure out the origins, they can, but that would take like an internet savvy person there. It's just like you don't know who you're writing to is really like the,

Krisserin 28:04

Oh, you're like scared. Some psycho is gonna be on the other side,

Kelton 28:07

yeah, there is like a la touch of like, um, some of these places were, you know, kind

Krisserin 28:14

but you don't have to send it. You can just post it.

Kelton 28:18

I feel like sending it though is like, kind of like what makes it a magical idea putting it out in the world to that place. I love your idea of writing it from the POV of the place itself. But, that's sort of my plan and also in a way, generous to myself because it means I know what I'm writing every single week, all

Krisserin 28:37

Yeah. Yeah.

Kelton 28:37

and then I can, I can just move chronologically through the different apartments and rooms and et cetera.

Krisserin 28:45

I wonder also if there's opportunities to publish those pieces in local, publications where you lived.

Kelton 28:52

Hmm. I like that.

Krisserin 28:54

Mm-hmm. I like the idea. I think it's great. Why did, why Ben just poo-pooed it? Because he thought it would be

Kelton 29:01

Well, Ben is, not whimsical.

Krisserin 29:04

okay.

Kelton 29:05

So Ben was just like, what am I supposed to do with a, a letter that isn't signed by anybody? You know, what's the point of me receiving a letter if we're not gonna start a correspondence?

Krisserin 29:16

Mm.

Kelton 29:17

And I was like, yeah, but I don't, one, these people are not asking for a correspondence and I don't want to engage in one.

Krisserin 29:24

Mm-hmm.

Kelton 29:24

want it to be a flash in the pan of like, oh wow, wild.

Krisserin 29:29

Mm-hmm.

Kelton 29:30

know,

Krisserin 29:31

And you could set the, what the expectations are at, at the top of the letter. So they know that there's no pressure and that this is just part of a project that you're doing or whatever you wanna do,

Kelton 29:40

yeah.

Krisserin 29:40

so that the reader isn't put off or whatever.

Kelton 29:43

Yeah, but I, you know, I just thought it would be fun to be like, time and place it for, you know, I would walk out of this apartment wearing my knockoff Jeffrey Campbell heels listening to my iPad nano, like, you know, like try and like centering around a time and, what was happening in the city then and, and what was built and what wasn't. So that's my, that's my idea.

Krisserin 30:05

Like it.

Kelton 30:06

Yeah, I feel good about having at least, an idea heading into the summer as I get kind of overwhelmed about like trying to balance, like having a fun life and, and still keeping up this newsletter

Krisserin 30:20

Finishing the first draft of your novel,

Kelton 30:22

and finishing the first draft. Of course. That will be done. It will

Krisserin 30:26

For me, it's feeling like a very daunting. Endeavor. I'm feeling a little overwhelmed by the idea of it just because the book feels very loose, to me.

Kelton 30:37

story.

Krisserin 30:39

Yeah. And part of me is like this, this romance novel that I'm writing. It's not, it's not serious at all. There's some serious themes in it. But it's just for fun. So I'm trying to remind myself. It's just for fun. But then I do have another idea for a book that I've had for a very long time that's kind of sitting in the back of my brain. Then I'm like, maybe I could just start doing some research on this book. It's a historical fiction novel.

Kelton 31:04

Oh my God.

Krisserin 31:05

I know I can't. I know I'm horrible. I know,

Kelton 31:08

It is

Krisserin 31:09

I know.

Kelton 31:10

All the writers we talk to who are successful in our publishing are also doing that.

Krisserin 31:15

Yeah.

Kelton 31:15

well, you know, thankfully when I got a two book deal, I actually had an idea in the can to send to them. Or like, now that I'm on the press tour, I can start working on that other idea I had so that like, when the tour is done, I have something to pitch my agent, you know,

Krisserin 31:29

That was Mona. She was like, yeah, my book's coming out. I have another book with my agent and I'm working on a book now. And I was like, what a rockstar.

Kelton 31:38

I know it's amazing when you really become a careerist, in your writing, how, how the projects overlap.

Krisserin 31:46

I love it. I'm so jealous.

Kelton 31:48

and like really, yeah, it really makes me look forward to

Krisserin 31:54

that's what I was thinking, like when can I be there? When can that be me? Well, it sounds like you've got your summer writing plans down. What is this next? What is, what is it? April? It's April now.

Kelton 32:10

Yeah, it's April,

Krisserin 32:11

my God.

Kelton 32:12

more than halfway through April.

Krisserin 32:14

Lord. I have so much coming up in May that in my brain, it's may already. And I hate that. I hate, I always get caught in that trap of thinking about what's coming instead of being in the moment. Now. I hate that about myself. But what's happening now, Kelton, what's, what's the now look like for you?

Kelton 32:36

I am, I'm in a funny place with work. I feel like we mentioned this on the podcast, one of my clients increased my hours enough that I, bumped up to getting health insurance,

Krisserin 32:48

That's.

Kelton 32:49

which was so amazing. And I, you know, I went through all the steps to like cancel my own insurance and I was paying for off the marketplace and like calling my doctor and like getting things set up. And then they emailed and they were like, we've had a budget problem. And so we actually are going back down to 20 hours. Like no fault of your own. Like works amazing. that came from an HR person who's at the agency that contracts me. And I was like, what? You literally, you just onboarded me to all of these. Benefits and I canceled my health insurance. And I like,'cause like the end of her email, she was like, let me know if you wanna chat through anything. Have a great weekend. And I was like, yeah, I, I want to chat through some things. I think there's Cobra, does that kick in if the health insurance hasn't even kicked in yet? she sent me another email being like, just hold on this thought for a little bit. And I, it was like Friday at four 30

Krisserin 33:48

I would be murderous.

Kelton 33:49

I was.

Krisserin 33:51

Ugh.

Kelton 33:51

so I met with a person who I actually work with, not at the agency on Monday. And he was like, how was your weekend? And I was like, well, it was a little weird. And he was like, oh my God, I'm so sorry that they contacted you before we could contact you. And then after a little bit of me being like, what is happening? They had internally agreed that they didn't want me to lose health insurance. So they found another project to put me on,

Krisserin 34:14

Okay. Thank God.

Kelton 34:15

But that only lasts through April. And then I don't know what happens. And obviously not only is losing health insurance a problem, but it's, it'll be another reduction in hours, after we just rebudgeted everything and changed all our automatic stuff. And I just was like, okay, alright. Easy does it. So I don't really know what's happening there and that is taking up a lot of brain space for me.

Krisserin 34:43

Yeah.

Kelton 34:44

And I mean, other than that, I'm like, okay, just focus on what's right in front of you. Soon Woods will go back into daycare. we'll have another parent visit. Soon I will spend more time being at the library working, Ben and I agreed that on Tuesdays when it's Ben's day with Woods, I will go to the library every Tuesday so that I'm away from the constant child wanting and hearing me so I can get more work done on that day, which I'm really looking forward to. And in amid all of this weaning.

Krisserin 35:22

How's that?

Kelton 35:23

It's going really poorly. You know, woods has always had trouble sleeping. And when we, I have tried several nights in a row last week to not give him milk at night, and he just, like horrible breakdowns, can't go back to sleep. like losing his mind and part of me is just like, he just like does not. Seem ready. And I'm wondering about all the women who've just you just gotta go away. And maybe the trick is we just work on reducing and reducing and reducing. And then in August, I just like, I'm like, bye

Krisserin 36:04

I love it. It's like, Ben, you wean him

Kelton 36:06

Yeah. Ta ta ta. TAs. But, uh, I, you know, that has been weighing heavy on me. But I'm, I'm like, so looking forward to whatever, resurgence I feel in energy and self when I get my boobs back.

Krisserin 36:22

and, and some sleep. Yeah.

Kelton 36:25

I mean, li listen, I think my, my worst nightmare is that it doesn't make an impact on either of our sleep. It's just that he just wakes up and needs to be walked around and that my sleep gets worse when I'm not

Krisserin 36:38

Right.'cause it's an easy way to get'em back down again. Yeah.

Kelton 36:41

great way to get him back down. And so there is a future where my sleep gets worse than it is now, and that is really intimidating. It is not a good enough reason to keep breastfeeding for me. I've really like, I really am done emotionally and physically, but this is what I get for being a hippie.

Krisserin 36:56

I think it's also,

Kelton 36:58

around.

Krisserin 36:58

no, I'm just thinking about it. I, because I don't wanna, I don't wanna give you advice.

Kelton 37:03

Yeah, I mean, and I don't, you know, the thing is like, I don't need any, like I've read everything,

Krisserin 37:09

I know.

Kelton 37:09

all the books, like I am well prepared. It's just one of those things you should have push through,

Krisserin 37:17

It's just, there's no easy way to do it. There's no way that's gonna feel good until he chooses that he's done and he's okay with it. It's just, it's such a hard position to be in, you know?

Kelton 37:29

He has started to be like, woods don't like this one?

Krisserin 37:32

right.

Kelton 37:33

Woods. Woods like this one. But he also, at other times, he will be sitting on my lap and he goes, another boob and another boob, and another boob and another boob. And I'm like, Ben, you have to at least film him doing this. If I have to endure this torture, we should at least be able to get a brand deal out of it.

Krisserin 37:56

Oh man. Yeah. I also just think, I don't know, I don't wanna generalize, but like, I I, I've heard that boys are more attached. So that's just, yeah. I think that's just very difficult. Well, I am, I, I think you're doing everything right. I think that, you know, the fact that you're having these conversations with him, it's more than I did, to be honest with you. I was like, done, you know.

Kelton 38:20

younger,

Krisserin 38:22

Well, they both, yeah, I mean, I

Kelton 38:24

weaned, didn't they?

Krisserin 38:25

rented, rented at 11 months. Sabine, I mean, by the time we were, there was, she was drinking so Little milk and I wasn't breastfeeding her to go to bed. I don't remember doing that. You know,

Kelton 38:37

Yeah.

Krisserin 38:38

I don't remember. I don't remember anything. It was so long ago. Sabine's 12. So it's hard also. You know, to, to remember what it was like. But it's, this is a moment in time and then probably in three months look back and be like, oh yeah, that was hell, but it's over. Now you forget.

Kelton 38:56

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin 38:57

the one piece of advice I can give you is that you will forget this. You will forget it, it will be a. Far past memory, and it won't, it won't have any impact on your life anymore. But I know it's hard. It's hard in the moment. I know it's hard in the moment.

Kelton 39:14

That's my goal for next week is to remove one more feeding.

Krisserin 39:20

I like it. I like it. Well, let's talk about goals for the upcoming week. One less feeding.

Kelton 39:27

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin 39:28

one more week of spring break though.

Kelton 39:32

When this comes out, he will be back in daycare. So we in theory today today's, like the last day we would've had. Thursday is like the last day he would've been. So the next Friday, Saturday, Sunday, I'm used to having him around and being with him. but next, when this episode is out on Monday, I will be hopefully writing something. One can only hope. So what, what is a goal for me next week? Chris? Aaron, help me out.

Krisserin 40:04

So we are gonna talk again next Thur, a week from today, next Thursday. And you will have how many days between now and then to write child, child free days three. I think you should try and get, I know you want a word count goal.

Kelton 40:21

I don't, I don't know, just hit me with a goal.

Krisserin 40:24

I think 1500 words is good. I liked what Mona was saying about 500 words, and I actually was thinking about it as I was working because five hundred's, a very achievable amount of writing in a short period of time.

Kelton 40:35

Yeah.

Krisserin 40:36

So if you have three days and you can bang that 1500 words out in one day, I think that's a really solid writing day. One really solid writing day, or three kind of short bursts of writing. And I also think that you should try and do one more ont stuck prompt,

Kelton 40:53

Okay.

Krisserin 40:55

and I'll have the same, same goal.

Kelton 40:58

Okay.

Krisserin 40:59

Mm-hmm.

Kelton 40:59

for us.

Krisserin 41:00

Yeah. I also wanna add to mine though, I do wanna try and revise, my short story, do another draft of it. That's another goal of mine. My mom's in town. We're gonna have her come say hi next week on the pod. So we've been having a lot of fun running around town, which isn't, you know, necessarily super con. I wanna spend time with her. Like, I don't wanna go whole away and, and write when she's here. I wanna spend time with her. And we do lots. We go shopping and watch movies and get coffee, and so go on walks with the dog. So if those goals don't get accomplished this week while my mom is in town, it's totally fine. But, I think that that is a manageable and achievable, goal to set out for both of us.

Kelton 41:43

I love that. Oh, you know what I wanna add to mine. I want to my sample chapters

Krisserin 41:51

Oh, for publication? Yeah.

Kelton 41:52

if any of them feel like they could be something.

Krisserin 41:56

Yeah. That's the one thing that I, am so ignorant of. I was thinking about your interview with Courtney mom and how she's like, you wanna get published in the Paris Review? Well, do you subscribe to the Paris Review? And I'm like, I wanna publish my story. I literally to no literary journals.

Kelton 42:11

Yeah,

Krisserin 42:12

I'm a total hypocrite, so I'm like.

Kelton 42:15

interesting you bring that up. I was thinking about that this week. Like,'cause I was reading somebody's bylines, you know, I think it was actually Ramona's and I was just kind of, I had this like, oh, what a dream. And then I was like, have you ever submitted to any of these places? Like you? If you wanna be published in them, you have to submit to them. And like, yeah. Is it pretty unlikely not having literally any connection to the Paris Review that they would publish me? Yeah. It's like I, I don't think it's gonna happen, but definitely won't happen at this rate. It's not like they're going to email me and be like, oh, we loved that essay you wrote on Shank Ross.

Krisserin 42:54

I, I think that, doing a little bit of research into. I mean, I've read, I've read several editions of Tin House and I have in the past read other literary journals, but not a really long time, and things change so rapidly. There are so many different. Publications that Sunset and I'm sure there's one that would be a great fit for my story. I just need to go out and like actually spend some time

Kelton 43:19

There's

Krisserin 43:19

researching them. Yeah. Which probably means that I need to take my mom to a small bookstore and you know, buy a couple and we can go through them together. That would be fun.

Kelton 43:32

on Substack there, I believe it is called Sub Club, is a

Krisserin 43:35

yeah.

Kelton 43:36

popular newsletter that's just like, this is what's accepting,

Krisserin 43:39

Yeah.

Kelton 43:39

what they pay, this is what the submission fee is, this

Krisserin 43:42

Yeah, yeah. I see. I'm subscribed to that for sure. Yeah.

Kelton 43:47

Know, especially at the stage that I think we're both in with that kind of writing. It's like we're not in a hurry. To do that. So it's like if you get a paid subscription to a sub club and just like keep saving things in a dock where you're like, I could do this one, I could do this one, I could do this one. Then by the time it's ready, you just have your your list ready to go with it.

Krisserin 44:11

It reminds me, I've been meaning to email my professor from Harvard, Dr. Elizabeth Sharp Mcta, who was also Leslie Ton's teacher. She has this really incredible system for how she actually submits short stories. We need to have her on so she could walk us through it, because I remember. I think it was the last day of class, she showed us her spreadsheet of what she maintains that has, where she submitted what, you know, all of that stuff and how she manages it and looks through the acceptances and rejections. And, I think that in order to be successful, you kind of have to have a system. So

Kelton 44:44

Mm-hmm.

Krisserin 44:45

That's, that's another honor to-do list of, like develop a submission system because I do, you know, that's how Bona found. Her agent, right? So many people have found their agents because they submitted.

Kelton 44:58

got a book deal.

Krisserin 44:59

Yeah. You get things published short fiction published, and people reach out to you and say, do you have a book? So I think it's a, it's a smart path in for us if we could just spend some time

Kelton 45:13

If

Krisserin 45:13

doing the research, some of that, all that time that we have.

Kelton 45:18

all that time, luscious time.

Krisserin 45:23

you know,

Kelton 45:24

Um,

Krisserin 45:24

hard.

Kelton 45:25

many dreams we have. Chris Aaron. So many dreams we have.

Krisserin 45:30

Oh, man.

Kelton 45:31

well our goals are set. 1500 words. more unstuck prompt from Ramona Isabel.

Krisserin 45:38

Mm-hmm.

Kelton 45:38

will review my sample chapters for publication and you will work on another Marian draft.

Krisserin 45:46

And potentially go to a bookstore and find some journals. Buy some journals. Read some journals. Yeah. Send it to the New Yorker, like whatever it is, a nine, almost 10,000 word short story. It is so, so I'm like, I'm a short fiction writer. My short story is 10,000 words. I printed it out. It was 35 pages.

Kelton 46:17

I mean, this makes me think of my only, the only time I've tried to write a short story and it was 19,000 words, and I was like, this isn't a short story. This is the beginning of your novel.

Krisserin 46:30

Yeah.

Kelton 46:32

Maybe it should be, I'll go back to slug, my original fiction.

Krisserin 46:36

Slug. I love it. I love it.

Kelton 46:39

I am

Krisserin 46:39

Um, I feel like my story reads fast though. It's long, but I think, I feel like it reads quickly, so, yeah,

Kelton 46:46

I had no idea it was that long.

Krisserin 46:48

it's so long.

Kelton 46:50

Sort of like.

Krisserin 46:52

I had to go check to make sure I had enough paper in my printer before I printed it out. That's how long it was. It's like, oh shit. I don't know if I have enough paper in there. Gotta print on both sides. All right, well.

Kelton 47:05

me to think that eventually we should have a submission challenge between the two of us. Like every week we're like, this week we're sending to the Paris Review. This week we're sending to the New York Times.

Krisserin 47:19

Oh, God, that sounds horrible. That sounds like my

Kelton 47:22

doesn't it, it sounds like

Krisserin 47:23

It, it, it, it kind of does. I do feel like we should make a spreadsheet of places that we can contribute to one another that we think each other's writing would do well in.

Kelton 47:38

I like that idea.

Krisserin 47:39

Okay.

Kelton 47:39

if readers, listeners, if you have any ideas, you know where to find us. We love all the emails we receive from you. We love being challenged and we love having your input into this podcast, it makes it feel so much more fun for us to know that it's, it's, inciting feelings

Krisserin 47:56

Yeah.

Kelton 47:56

some writing.

Krisserin 47:58

Yeah, absolutely. You know where to reach us official pen pals pod@gmail.com. Drop us to note, to tell us how much you love us, and you can also tell us that we're assholes. We'll take that too. We love, we'll take it all. You can follow us on, all of the social media platforms at Pen Pals Pod, you can read Kelton's work@schenkerlogs.substack.com and learn about all of her amazing courses@keltonwright.com. Follow her at Kelton Kin on Instagram, Kelton Wright on TikTok. You can follow me on TikTok, at Chrissen. And other than that, I don't know what else to say.

Kelton 48:34

Uh, happy writing. Does it sound happy?

Krisserin 48:38

It sounds like you're unsure about it. Alright, everybody have a great week. Happy writing.

Kelton 48:44

writing.