The Case for Abandoning Your Book (For Now)

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In this late-season check-in, Krisserin and Kelton answer a listener letter from Paige, a new mom asking whether to return to her pandemic-era novel or start one of her shiny new ideas. Their answer surprises even them — and leads to an honest conversation about burnout, creative momentum, and how to use stolen writing time when life refuses to pause. Plus: Dungeon Crawler Carl, and the listener survey you really should fill out.

Books mentioned in this episode:

- Dungeon Crawler Carl by Matt Dinniman
- Nora Goes Off Script by Annabelle Monaghan
- Unstuck by Ramona Ausubel 
- The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss
- The Easter Parade by Richard Yates
- Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry

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TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Transcript

Krisserin 0:00

I got a DM from a good friend of mine's mom on Instagram

Kelton 0:07

Uh-huh

Krisserin 0:07

the clips that we posted from Amanda's interview. And she wrote, "You look really tired, Krisserin." I was like, "Thanks, Kimberly."

Speaker 0:18

I'm Krisserin Canary. And I'm Kelton Wright. Follow our quest to publish our first novels from first drafts, to query letters through inevitable rejections

Speaker 2 0:26

and hopefully eventual success

Speaker 0:28

from California to

Speaker 2 0:29

Colorado. This is pen pals.

Kelton 0:32

Wow, thank you. Thank you so much for that.

Krisserin 0:35

I'm like, "I feel really tired. I feel great. I'm amazing." Ugh,

Kelton 0:41

why I feel great today, Krisserin? I got a blow dryer

Krisserin 0:47

Oh my gosh.

Kelton 0:48

I got a new blow dryer, and for the first time in my 40 years on Earth, I have a diffuser

Krisserin 0:58

You know

Kelton 0:59

took so long. That's why I... You can't see it, listeners, but I have, like, perfect beachy hair today just because I used a diffuser for the first time. If you're on YouTube, you can just see that my, like, natural waves, they're just waving. I'm the surfer chick I'm meant to be

Krisserin 1:15

My mom always says when you are facing anything particularly stressful, doing your hair and makeup and, and dressing nice is a way to put on armor to face the world, and it really does, it really does wonders for your confidence when you feel like you look good, even if you feel shitty on the inside, so.

Kelton 1:33

Yeah, absolutely

Krisserin 1:34

Well, speaking of feeling shitty on the inside... No, I'm kidding. Uh, how was your week, Kelton? Your goal last week was to do some self-care, right? And

Kelton 1:49

no,

Krisserin 1:49

write one time?

Kelton 1:51

I had no

Krisserin 1:51

See ya-

Kelton 1:52

on the docket. Our goal was

Krisserin 1:53

Okay.

Kelton 1:54

both of us, was to write

Krisserin 1:56

Write once, correct. See, this is why you're the historian of the podcast, 'cause I already forgot.

Kelton 2:04

I mean, I have it open in front of me, and I've gotten way better at just, writing down what we say.

Krisserin 2:09

Yeah. Yeah

Kelton 2:10

was pretty good. So this week, a huge milestone in my life, um, my child turned two. I celebrated the two-year anniversary of being cut open across my abdomen and having my guts removed from my body while they yanked a mewling child out of me, and then stuffed all my guts back in. Uh, and I lived. So I celebrate that as well as his birthday.

Krisserin 2:36

Yeah

Kelton 2:37

it was great. turned two to a lot of fanfare, a lot of playground time, a lot of water tabling. And I wasn't sure I was gonna count this, but I did spend, a lot of time writing a letter to him for his second birthday. I ha- in the early days had been trying to just keep, a running letter, almost a journal to him, and, I have a couple versions of that, but I do adhere at least to a yearly birthday letter to be like, "This is what's happening. This is how I feel as your mom. This is what your dad's doing. This is what's happening at our house. This is what life is like. this is what you're like." And, I was gonna be like, "That was my writing," but then I was like, "No, girl, just, try a little more." So I wrote half of the essay that'll bring back Shangri-Logs. I didn't touch the novel. I read a lot this week. I read two books this week, the whopper Dungeon Crawler Carl by Matt Dinniman, long book, and I also read Nora Goes Off Script by Annabelle Monaghan

Krisserin 3:42

both of which she loved

Kelton 3:44

Both of which I loved. So we need to, check back on Dungeon Crawler Carl, because I had told you that I wasn't sure I was gonna like this book because of the way the dedication was written. And there are elements of the writing that I'm not, obsessed with, but I loved the story. do think that you have to have, you have to have a base level enjoyment of, like, crassness, vulgarity, violence. The- you have to be very comfortable with those things to enjoy this book. And you have to, I really think in some ways, you have to be the kind of person who likes video games. This book is essentially a video game. It's like being inside a video game, and you go along the story with two main protagonists. And I have spent a lot of time in my life with video games. I had an older brother. I fell in love with video games of my own, when I was younger, like N64 and Sega Genesis, and those sorts of things. And there are a number of games that I love to sit and watch with Ben. We don't do that anymore 'cause we have a child, but there were games that I was like, "Go there, go there. There's a person to your left. Go up that ladder." You know, it's like, it felt like I was playing, but I don't have the, muscular coordination to use a modern controller, which is, actually true. I have a, like a minor muscular dysfunction where, I can't type correctly, I can't play the piano. I can't get my fingers to do different things, is why I chicken peck when I type. So I can't use one of the controllers, but I enjoy watching. Anyways, this book is like being in a video game, and there are eight of them, and so I do look forward to seeing what he does. I cannot imagine the spreadsheets this man must have for this book. I cannot imagine. And I think I read somewhere that his initial like, crashed his computer 'cause it was so layered. You know, it's like he has to remember what, every level up, every spell, every potion, all the combinations of how to build things. Building a video game is so complex, and he did it in a book. for the craft alone in that way, I am obsessed with this book. congratulations, Matt Dinniman, that you crawled out of self-publishing into the wide arena of movie and television rights.

Krisserin 6:16

That's incredible. You know, I used to work at a, a startup that created games for kids, and to teach them how to make games and how to code and worked with several gameplay programmers and designers whose job it is to build the puzzles inside the games, and I know that it is a whole job. It's a whole feat, so to do that... And they do, you know, write storyboards, and they have to create all of the, the world-building and all of that, and so to do it in novel form is very fun and interesting, and I'm sure there's a lot of people out there who are also big video game fans that would enjoy the book. I did check in with Kenette, my mother, um, for those listeners who aren't familiar with podcast lore. Um, my mother is number-one Pen Pals pod fan. She didn't say that it was gory. I misquoted her. She said it was crass and vulgar, and that's why she struggled to get through it,

Kelton 7:15

I will say

Krisserin 7:16

so-

Kelton 7:16

is, there isn't any sex in this book. Um, it is incredibly crass, incredibly, but there isn't any sex. And I,

Krisserin 7:25

I wonder

Kelton 7:25

up, I was like, "Is there any romance in this book? Like, should I be looking for,

Krisserin 7:30

Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Kelton 7:31

it said no.

Krisserin 7:32

I wonder what she's referring to then. We'll have to ask her again.

Kelton 7:36

Kanah is 1,000% right. It is crass.

Krisserin 7:39

Okay

Kelton 7:39

need to be sex for it to be vulgar and crass, trust me.

Krisserin 7:44

Okay

Kelton 7:45

I loved it, and I can't wait to read more. I'm making Ben read it so he and I can be in, like, a little video game book club together. Um

Krisserin 7:53

I heard that the audiobook is really good and s- and the thing that's kind of frustrating for me and why I haven't read or listened to it is he, he hasn't made it available anywhere but Audible. You can't check it out from the library, and I'm like, "What the fuck is that about?" Yeah, it's not available on Libby. So, um, uh, for someone who's self-published, that's like, it makes sense I guess, but I'm kind of like, "Mm, don't you want people to be able to check your book out from the library?"

Kelton 8:26

mean, let's call up Matt Deneman and get him on the pod. I wonder if

Krisserin 8:29

Yeah

Kelton 8:29

decision or if that's part of his, like, publishing agreement

Krisserin 8:33

Ah, I, uh, I don't know, but I don't like the trend of it. I don't like the idea that, like, publishers are not gonna let their audiobooks be available at the library. That feels, um, I don't know. It goes against my morals

Kelton 8:47

Yeah, I, listen, I, I hear you on that. Um, on a completely different genre, I read Nora Goes Off Script by Annabelle Monaghan, um, i- which I think was her first novel. Um, I think it was her debut, and it was amazing. It was such a delight. I read it in a few hours. just all the warm and cozies that you want out of a rom-com. Um, it had s- really good one-liners. It made me laugh out loud at least three times. you know, not like but like, you know, when you're like, you catch yourself off guard by a funny line. and it, it made me buy the book. I was like, "I would love to have this on my shelves to read again in, like, a couple years." Uh, and now I can't wait to read the rest of her books. She has, like, six of them, so I was like, "Whoa, what a treasure trove for me"

Krisserin 9:39

You're gonna have a fun summer. Dungeon Crawler Carl.

Kelton 9:44

Yes.

Krisserin 9:45

yes. Are you gonna read all of them?

Kelton 9:47

I don't know, I- w- the one issue I am facing is that the wait at the library to get the next book is really long.

Krisserin 9:56

Yeah

Kelton 9:56

look, by book four the wait list is, nonexistent.

Krisserin 10:01

Hmm.

Kelton 10:02

so

Krisserin 10:02

that's, that's telling

Kelton 10:04

I mean, it could be, or everyone's waiting to read the first book.

Krisserin 10:08

Oh

Kelton 10:09

the, the wait list for the first book was months.

Krisserin 10:12

Yeah

Kelton 10:13

and so maybe people just aren't catching up. Um, because there is a wait list for two and three. Uh, it's not as long, but I'm an incredibly fast reader, so I, I don't wanna lose momentum on the

Krisserin 10:26

Yeah.

Kelton 10:27

Uh, but we'll see

Krisserin 10:28

But you don't wanna buy all of them either

Kelton 10:31

I don't wanna buy all of them. I also, like, like I have said in the past, like, once you have movie rights, I'm just, I'm not as inclined to

Krisserin 10:40

looked at ABE Books?

Kelton 10:43

At A Books for his books? No, I haven't. Like resal- resale?

Krisserin 10:47

Yeah. I do that sometimes

Kelton 10:49

idea

Krisserin 10:50

if I wanna like read a book but I don't wanna buy it from Amazon and I don't wanna buy the f- you know, full hardcover price of it, I'll go and get like a used copy

Kelton 11:00

That's

Krisserin 11:01

a small bookstore for like seven bucks

Kelton 11:05

That was making me think, I was trying to find the original Where's Waldo books. Um, I was having trouble finding them in hardcover, I was looking at Thrift Books and AbeBooks, and the reviews were all like, "Waldo is circled on every page. W- you said it was in good condition.

Krisserin 11:27

That's amazing

Kelton 11:30

how can you say it's good condition?"

Krisserin 11:33

That is amazing.

Kelton 11:35

I know.

Krisserin 11:37

I will keep an eye... You know what, though? I was, 'cause you know I like to go to estate sales. This is, like, my, my favorite thing to do in LA, has... And it's always, like, really wealthy older ladies who just collect a lot of shit. Um, but they always have a room where their grandkids stayed that have books and puzzles and toys, and I've seen several Where's Waldo books. So I will keep an eye peeled for you, and I will pick 'em up if I find them. Yeah, for sure. And I'll, I'll double-check to make sure that Waldo's not circled inside.

Kelton 12:09

Also, there was one amazing review where sh- this woman was like, "This is not a children's book." And she posts

Krisserin 12:15

Oh, 'cause there's like boobs and like, yeah.

Kelton 12:18

in, yes, of like people having

Krisserin 12:19

Totally.

Kelton 12:20

off, and people having sex, and like all this horrible stuff

Krisserin 12:24

is so true. What were we doing looking at these books as kids? We lived in a different world than today, for sure

Kelton 12:30

I know, I know. Oh, so good. I can't wait to expose Woods to it

Krisserin 12:38

Oh, man. Um, well, that's really exciting. I'm, I'm excited that you had such a great reading week. I wrote three times this week. Um, one, a, a little bit of, like, actual writing of scene. Um, I'm still... I really do feel like I'm feeling my way around in the dark with this book, and what started out as fun is of course now becoming work, and therefore I'm losing interest in doing it because I am tired. But I-

Kelton 13:08

the listeners which book you're working on

Krisserin 13:10

This is, my middle school love story, and, it's about, a parent and, and the principal, you know, who have a history together falling in love. So it's not about middle schoolers falling in love. I have to always caveat that. But I did pull out Ramona Ausubel's Unstuck, and I did two prompts that I was gonna share with you. I- the first one, is called get out of your known world, write what you want to know. And so the prompt or the key was start a list of curiosities. And this can be for anything, kind of her prompt was, what do airline pilots talk about on a long flight? What was up with the hole in the ozone layer discovered in the '80s? Things like that. But I did it more so about, my characters and writing lists of things that I was curious about for my characters, which really made me think I just don't know my characters as well as I need to. So that was kind of one little area of insight that came to me during this exercise.

Kelton 14:11

I'm making this funny face because I also wrote list of curiosities, things

Krisserin 14:17

From, from,

Kelton 14:17

more about this week.

Krisserin 14:19

from on Substack or no? From, oh, we did the same one?

Kelton 14:22

I did the same one, but I didn't do it about my book at all. I was just like, "All right, let's think about, like, you're coming up on the newsletter coming back again. You know what you're gonna write for Sundays. You don't know what you're gonna write for Wednesdays. What are you curious about right now?" And yeah, I wrote a list of, like, beaver relocation and Love Island casting, like a bunch of, like, really

Krisserin 14:46

funny

Kelton 14:47

things. but I- that's so amazing that we were just, like, on the same wavelength of, like,

Krisserin 14:52

We picked the same one. Yeah. I did the one after. Did you do the next prompt in the book? I really liked this one. I thought it was pretty brilliant. It's called Fairy Talify: Using Once Upon a Time to Find a Frame. The prompt is try to plug your piece or what you know of it into this frame, and the frame is once upon a time, and every day, until one day, and because of this, and because of this, until finally, and ever since that day, and you fill it in. And I did it, and it was great, and it actually really helped me frame the novel. It was really, really helpful. Yeah, this book is incredible. Everyone really does need to go buy this book because it is such a fun way to get yourself to do something every day if you're really stuck writing, and, I'm in the middle of it but there's a whole section at the beginning if you're trying to get started and a whole section on the end if you're kind of struggling at the end of, of writing a book. But I found it super helpful, and I won't stop talking about this book, but it is pretty nice that you and I both had the same idea. But outside of that, I wrote 1,400 words. Something, you know?

Kelton 16:03

Yeah, it's something. It's something. Is the middle school parent principal love story the one that you're gonna focus on finishing this summer?

Krisserin 16:12

I was thinking about it. I will say after our conversation with Amanda last week, and I remi- reminded myself that I do have to turn in my 20 pages to my MFA program in June, my goal for my MFA program really was to work on the novel that I wrote back in 2012, 2013, The Incredible Gustafson Women, and the theme of that book is very much intergenerational trauma and alcoholism and so having that conversation with Amanda last week really reignited a lot of my thoughts around that book. And then my mom wrote Amanda an email. My mom loved Amanda, period, full stop, but also loved the, interview that we did with her because, on top of Amanda being incredibly vulnerable and expressive and charming and, magnetic, she had a lot of similarities to Amanda and Amanda's mom. And, we talked a little bit about what my mom said and the similarities between our stories, and it reminded me that Amanda read The Incredible Gustafson Women. I sent it to her to read, um, gosh. I, I, we were talking about this, it must have been in season one where I said I wanted to send my book out to some beta readers, and I selected two. Um, and because there are themes of alcoholism and recovery in the book, I asked Amanda to read it because it's something that, you know, she knows intimately and, and helps people with. And, um, she started talking about my book again, and I was like, "Oh, yeah, that book."

Kelton 17:52

Oh, right. That one

Krisserin 17:54

So I think that I'm starting to round a corner in this burnout that I've been having. I feel like once school's out, and I don't have to get up and get the kids ready, and drive them all over God's green earth in the afternoon 'cause I didn't schedule them for summer camp, it's going to free up a lot of time and mental bandwidth. And I was thinking about this for both of us. Having a deadline, like something that you have to work towards, and having someone waiting for you really does work as a forcing function to get shit done. So I'm gonna give myself until, you know, end of June. I'm going on my... Boyan and I are celebrating our 20th wedding anniversary in June, and we're going on a trip to Canada. We're going to Vancouver and Victoria.

Kelton 18:50

Ooh

Krisserin 18:51

And when I come back from that, I will have about... Well, I will have had to turn in my assignment for my MFA, but then I'll have some time before my, residency in July to just, like, really figure out what the fuck I wanna do.

Kelton 19:06

Right?

Krisserin 19:07

Yeah. I feel like if I had all the time in the world, I would just work on all of these projects at the same time.

Kelton 19:14

Yeah.

Krisserin 19:15

I just need to get excited about being productive again, and having some sort of, thing to work toward I think will be really helpful. But that's where I'm, that's where I'm at.

Kelton 19:26

having taken May off from the newsletter, it's, work is such a gas. It just expands to fill the space that you have.

Krisserin 19:36

Totally

Kelton 19:37

I'm sitting here at the end of May knowing I have to get back on the newsletter train being like, "When? How? How did I, how did I write two newsletters a week and work on a novel? How did I do that?" And I, I know that I'm still, like, I'm still very actively trying to out of this depression, uh, get back to myself. You know, it helps that the leaves are coming out and that it's, you know, it was, um, really warm here the other day and the dirt road, uh, got really hot and then it rained and it had that perfect smell of

Krisserin 20:13

I love that smell

Kelton 20:15

wet summer dirt and I

Krisserin 20:16

Mm-hmm

Kelton 20:17

I felt younger. Like I just embodied like who I'd been like 20 years ago and I was like, "Oh, forgot how much I miss this." I miss just like summer and being warm and so it was really revitalizing and so just knowing that that weather is around the corner is Is really helpful. And, um, yeah, it's like just, I don't know, I'm gonna look at my schedule and just start carving things in. But I am intimidated by having to do more work again, but I, I think it'll be healthy to have the creative wheels turning. And do-- the month off from the newsletter did give me some freedom where I was just kinda like, "Who fucking cares how many subscribers I have or if they like what I'm writing?" Like the point of me starting Shangri-Logs was always like I was inspired and I had something I wanted to write, and I wrote. And it was like it's nice that people enjoy it. Obviously, that's a huge boon for my career, and it was really amazing timing that I got on Substack so early. But like now I'm just in like a functioning ecosystem that's not highlighting me, and the point is for me to write what I love. and obviously we all know that, blah, blah, blah.

Krisserin 21:35

No

Kelton 21:35

like to feel it and to come back to that sensibility I think is always really challenging for me. and, n- getting a little inkling of that feels very healthy. And we'll see. It's like it doesn't have to last forever and I can have loosey-goosey rules if I want to. I did for... I normally when I pause the newsletter, I pause paid subscriptions too, and I didn't do that this time. I was like, "Listen, just taking a couple weeks off. Just let the girl have a couple weeks. I'll be back. I'll be generating stuff. If you wanna unsubscribe, that option is available to you. But for now, we're gonna go easy on Kelton." And it was nice to take that stance for myself.

Krisserin 22:21

And you'll produce better work for it, you know? I think when you write from a place of I don't wanna use the word desperation, but I don't know what other word to use. It, it produces work that, that kind of reeks of it, not that you do that. But I'm just reminded of, I always talk about this with Boyan, I never... I, I got to a point when I was 21, so, you know, this was a long time ago, where I was like, "I don't care if I get married. I'm not gonna do this to myself. I'm not gonna be in the rat race of, like, trying to find a partner and settling for whomever." And it was the minute that I made that decision that I met Boyan. That, that I was like, "I don't give a fuck anymore. I'm not even gonna, like, date. I'm just gonna live my life, and if it happens, it happens." That was the minute I met Boyan. And I think that you- I think that that's what you attract these things to yourself when you're being really authentic to who you are as an artist, and, that's when you do your, your best work. And, it leads perfectly, this conversation, into a segue into a, listener letter that we got in the last week from Paige Parsons it says: Hi Krisserin and Kelton. I wanted to write to say thank you for the podcast. I started listening while pregnant, but since having my son last September, hearing about both of your experiences and how you've been able to fit, and sometimes not fit, writing time into your lives while you're parenting and also working is really reassuring, and also helps me feel like it's okay that I'm not as productive right now as I hoped to be while home with my baby. I am on a year-long maternity leave, thanks Canadian government, from my journalism job, but also have zero childcare other than when my husband is off work, so it's been harder to find time to write than I thought it would be. However, now that my kid is finally sometimes napping in his crib instead of on me, I have a bit more available time. The podcast also inspired me to join a couple of Sunday book writing sessions that a group of local writers puts on in my city that are coming up next month. My question is, if you had limited time and a few precious dedicated writing days coming up, what would you work on? I have a first draft of a novel written during the early pandemic years that I tinker on and off, with on and off, but it has mostly been languishing. I think about it often and believe it has a lot of potential, but it needs a full rewrite with all the structural and plot changes I have in mind. I also have a list of several shiny new ideas that seem pretty tempting to jump into. I'm wondering if it's better to use the sessions as a chance for a fresh start and to ride the high that comes with digging into a new concept. I'm usually a finish what you start kinda gal, but maybe it's better to move on, at least for now. For what it's worth, the existing first draft is a coming-of-age Y2K cult novel with a bit of mystery. The new ideas that I am most interested in starting are a multi-POV roller derby novel focused on amateur adult athletes and friendship romance or a sister road trip romp featuring a senior citizen bus tour and wacky grandfather. All of these ideas sound so good. I'd love to...

Kelton 25:20

of these

Krisserin 25:21

All, all of the above. I'd love to hear what you choose and how you decide what to prioritize when time is limited

Kelton 25:28

I wanna, I, I attach to one part of Paige's question, which is she said she's a finish what you start gal. And I have kind of been grappling with my own identity and, like, what I attach to in it in writing, and that is, I can't finish anything long. I can't stick through a big project. And I've been trying to kind of release myself of that.

Krisserin 25:50

I'm like, "That sounds like a limiting belief."

Kelton 25:52

Yeah, it's a very limiting belief, but it is, thus far pr- true. But that doesn't mean that it is always true. And I think, like, when we attach to these concepts of, who we are and let them kind of dictate what we do, it's always worthwhile to push against that. If you, Paige, choose to start a new project, that does not mean that you didn't finish what you start with the other project. It just means that you're tabling it for a moment until you feel like you're excited to work on it again. I think one thing I've really attached to in this season is that writers are constantly jumping between projects, especially successful ones, because they're at different stages for all of those projects. And old projects come back, you know, you get a two-book deal, and you're like, "I have this thing I've shelved forever," like, "Does this look good?" You know, I think of Olivia Muenter, like, Little One that just came out was the first novel she started on, and it wasn't the first one that got published, it was the second one. And so there's, there's this element of play with your writing that should stay intact, where you can move from the different projects and not feel like you are abandoning one. You are waiting until it's the right time to work on it. If I was you, and I had a 9 to 10-month-old baby who was just beginning to s- sit in their crib for naps, which I don't know what that's like. Congratulations. Good job. then I, I would say start something new. Like, 'Cause if you go back to a project you've been working on forever, and you have these precious few hours that have just been awarded back into your life, then those hours are kind of spent, like, mucking through a swamp, kind of. You're, like, pushing things out of your way. You're trying to see where the water is clear, where the water's coming in. It's kind of messy, but if you are just like, "I'm gonna pot this new plant," like, it's, it's such a sweet container, 'cause you're-- it can go anywhere. You know? And I would take one of those ideas that you're, jazzed about, like a character that you can really see, and just start by, writing a description of that character from another character's POV. And get someone on the page that-- 'Cause for, for me at least, this might not work for you, I feel the most passionate about fiction projects when I have a character that I really want people to meet, and I'm like, "I gotta get this girl out of my computer. I gotta get her out of there." And so, once you start with a character that you're escorting into their world I feel like that's the most fun place to start, and it's also very reflective of your journey with a human.

Krisserin 28:30

Yeah, I, I tend to agree with Kelton, for two reasons. I feel like that time when you are with a baby, it is, uh... it's difficult. Like, your brain is, is processing so much new information, and it's also exciting because life is new and, and joyful in a different way. And I do think that using some of that energy to explore and be creative without feeling like you have to open up a spreadsheet and think through how you're going to completely rewrite something that's already written, I feel like it, it would almost be doing a disservice to that new spark of creativity that you have in your body and in your brain to go back to something that is gonna require a lot of work. The other thing I...

Kelton 29:19

You're

Krisserin 29:19

Yeah.

Kelton 29:20

on

Krisserin 29:20

You're...

Kelton 29:21

on lack of sleep. Like,

Krisserin 29:22

Yeah

Kelton 29:22

is to write drunk, edit sober, and you are drunk, babe. So

Krisserin 29:26

Yeah. I like that description. I think also, because I've done this, right? I am... This middle school love story book that I'm working on is, hold on, one, two, three, four, my fifth book that I've started. And I'm also a finish-what-you-start kind of gal, but I've also ha- I've had to put down projects and go back to them for a lot of reasons. I think one is sometimes you fall out of love with something, and you need space from it to fall back in love with it again, and to be re-energized to enter into the arena with that story once more. And I also think that sometimes, and this goes back to the interview that we had with Mark Sarvas, y- you put these challenges in front of you, you know, the story that you wanna write, this multi-POV thing or, or even the book that you wrote before, that might be above your skill level right now. I know that for me, m- the book that I wrote, the Incredible Gustafson novel, the reason why it's not done is because it's ambitious, and I haven't developed the skills to execute it the way I want to quite yet. I know I will get there, but it's gonna take more work, more practice, more writing, more development for me to go back and execute that novel the way that I really want to. So I think that, you know, if I were you, and I know she asked us how we choose our projects, but we're basically like, "This is what I would do if I were you." If I were you...

Kelton 30:49

sorry Paige, not

Krisserin 30:50

Sorry, Paige.

Kelton 30:51

at all. I, we

Krisserin 30:53

we'll answer it. We will answer it, yeah. I would use this time to be, to have fun, to, uh, you know, do a little bit of weight training with your brain, and to get back into the rhythm of, of exercising that part of your brain, and, and be creative in a way that isn't, doesn't feel like it's work. It should feel like it's generative, and exciting, and, reflective of the state of, of your body, and your mind, and your life right now. And eventually, you'll get to a place where you can jump back into the arena with the book that you wrote, you know, around the pandemic with enough energy and, grit to complete it, and you will. I, I don't think that there's any, shame in putting something down for a bit, knowing that you're gonna pick it up again, and- To Kelton's point, y- I mean, you, you labeled yourself as a finish what you start kind of gal, and you still are that person. But sometimes we take detours in life, and having a child is a huge detour. It's a detour to your body and your career and all of these things, and I know that you might feel pressure because you have this, like, one year of being at home. But, you know, it's, you have other time, too, and it, it might not be this one year when you're off work, but you will... I, I also feel like Kelton just asked herself, "How did I write two newsletters and work, and work on a novel?" It's incredible what we can do. It's incredible how we make the time to do the things that we're really passionate about, so. And sometimes that's the fun part is, like, sneaking it in. It feels like you're, you're stealing your time back from the world

Kelton 32:36

Paige, you also just gave me, such a flashback to early motherhood when I just had the baby strapped to me all the time and I was just writing over his head, just tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip. And now as a two-year-old, he sits at my desk and smacks my keyboard and goes, "Woodsy writing. Woodsy writing like mama." And I'm

Krisserin 32:55

Oh, I love that. I love that. Ugh.

Kelton 32:59

In

Krisserin 32:59

okay, well,

Kelton 33:00

choosing

Krisserin 33:01

her question, yeah, her question, which was, what did she say? Her, if you have limited time and a few precious dedicated writing days coming up, what would you work on? How do you choose?

Kelton 33:14

work on? Well, um, since I told you that I don't finish anything, of course I wanna work on something new. Look, I can't hide from the, Gemini manifesting generator inside of me. I do love working on new stuff, and I had, after reading Nora Goes Off Script, had, like, a really good idea, um, of how to bring to life a story I've been wanting to write for a long time. I've always wanted to write about my time in the Caribbean, and I just was like, "I don't wanna write, a 22, 23-year-old's love story in the Caribbean." I don't wanna go back to that. And Nora Goes Off Script gave me a really good idea of how to use my past in the Caribbean structure a story about a character who's, in their 30s. So I, obviously, I wanna write that, but I'm like, "No. You have a deadline, so if I think about, like, I don't have a precious few writing days up, but I do have a summer without Krisserin. We will be taking the summer off to work on our projects. I know. And that means that every Thursday, I have, two hours sectioned off for writing, and I, I did already map out, these are the scenes you should try to write this day. These are the scenes here to try to get to a draft. So for me, I have a deadline, because I know what my schedule looks like, how I'm approaching those days is I have to squeeze in this type of work. That said, free time. Free time might be used, for that Caribbean story, just 'cause it's been... To have a, an unlock come, I feel like is a gift that you can't deny. When there's that light bulb moment where you're like, "I know how this story works," it's like you, you owe it to yourself to, just spend some time, even a one-pager, just being like, "This is how this story unfolds." And so I... It's ki- it's kinda like, how do I choose what I want? It's what I want.

Krisserin 35:16

Yeah. Well, it made me really sad that you s- said you're gonna have a summer without Krisserin, like I'm the impediment to you changing your world

Kelton 35:23

No, it just frees up two hours on my calendar, you know? It's like, and I'm gonna keep this time. I'm not taking Pen Pals off of my calendar for the summer just 'cause we're not recording. I'm just

Krisserin 35:33

No

Kelton 35:33

Pen Pals time for our books. And

Krisserin 35:35

I know.

Kelton 35:36

and I will be texting the whole

Krisserin 35:37

Of course, of course. No, I mean similarly I spend a lot of time, you know, editing the podcast and getting clips together, and that time will be won back for me for the summer as well. I honestly, the bigg- my biggest time suck is fucking picking the kids up from school. God bless it. It's, it's a three-hour endeavor. And y- yesterday, I didn't tell you this, but yesterday there was a fire that broke out right behind Sabine's school. It was so close. And Bojan Slacked me, 'cause we Slack each other he's like, "There's a fire at Sabine's school." And I literally just, like, got in the car and drove over there and picked her up from school. I didn't give a shit. I was like, "I don't care how big this fire is," I, I'm like, "I'm taking my kid." And I went and picked up Ren, and we went to a cafe and had pancakes. And I was like, "This is what we're doing today." Yeah. Have you ever been to Bobbie's on Ventura?

Kelton 36:28

No.

Krisserin 36:28

that k- that diner?

Kelton 36:30

No, I

Krisserin 36:30

It's fine. Actually, I saw David Boreanaz there That's the second time I've seen him in a month. I saw him at the Apple Store at the mall too. I was like, "Angel?"

Kelton 36:40

time for a little Buffy re-watch.

Krisserin 36:42

It was his birthday. He had, like, a little,

Kelton 36:44

hilarious

Krisserin 36:45

Yeah, I tried not to... I try to leave celebrities alone. But anyway, um, yeah. I... And so yesterday I didn't have to... By the way, by the time I got home the fire was out, but I was like, "I don't give a shit." There was traffic already to get, like, because of the fire that was, like, backed up, and I live far enough away from my school. I was like, "If it becomes a madhouse and I have to, like..." I just didn't wanna deal with it, I, you know. Um, thanks Watchduty. So I didn't have to do that yesterday. And Wednesdays are the worst because Wren gets out at 12:00, and Sabine gets out at 2:00. I'm just sitting over there for hours waiting for my kids to get out of school. All of that time can be spent doing other things, all of that time. Um, and hopefully not work, 'cause you are right. Work is the gas that fills all empty spaces. But, I would say, you know, for me, if I had, let's say, like, I, I got to go be in a cabin in the woods for a week by myself, how would I spend that time? I, I think it's what I advised you to do, Paige, is I would... I'm in the midst of all of these different projects and in the middle of all kinds of, like, weird things. I think I would start by reading The Gustafson Women again. I would read it again. I've read it I've read it, like, so many times. I, I distinctly remember Kelton being like, "Stop reading the fucking drafts of your book and do something about it." But I would read it again, 'cause it's been a while, and I, I forgot quite a bit of it. I would probably write some exploratory material on some new ideas that I've been playing with, short stories that I've been... I keep having these short story ideas come to me, and usually I'll... I, I will pluck out 1,000 words of those just to get some ideas on paper. I would do some probably drafts from some things from Ramona's book, and I would just have fun with it and explore and be in a creative state without any stakes, and just see what happens, and fall back in love with being free in that way again.

Kelton 38:49

Yeah. I would also read...

Krisserin 38:52

Yeah. I read a lot too

Kelton 38:54

man, pick up a fun one. Pick up a fun one

Krisserin 38:57

There are some books that are on my TBR that I own, I, like, bought physical copies of the book, that I really would just love to get lost in. There are some books that I would love to revisit and remind myself why I loved them. I'm a huge Richard Yates fan, and Easter Parade is one of my favorite books of all time, and I haven't read it in a really long time, and I would love to go back to that book. I got Lonesome Dove. I really wanna read it. I love, I love big, epic books set in the West. So yeah, that's what I would do. I hope-

Kelton 39:31

I picked up, Patrick Rothfuss, I think is his name, The Name of the Wind, series. I opened the first pages last night and saw the map and was just like, "Yes. "Yes. I've been waiting for a book with a map."

Krisserin 39:46

I only read books with maps. Literally, like that's all I do. Give me all the maps. You know, that's the one thing about reading on a Kindle that's kind of a bummer is that there's a map, and I'm like trying to like zoom in to see it, and I can't see it. If you ever go on Etsy, there are people who do big woodcut maps of your favorite books, and there was the Realm of the Elderlings, woodcut map that I really wanted to buy for my mom. It was $300. And then I was like, "Where is she gonna put this?" But I just, I just love a map. I love a map, and I wanna have a book with a map someday, but not today. I think even like this historical not r- fiction novel that I wanna write, I would make a map for. It's set in Italy, but

Kelton 40:34

printed map of our valley, and

Krisserin 40:37

I love that

Kelton 40:38

ranges. It sits on our counter. and it, it's, such like a... Because, like, my novel that I'm working on right now is based on this valley, it's such a good reminder when I look at it of, like, the potential for the story,

Krisserin 40:53

Ugh

Kelton 40:53

think about your map. Think about your map."

Krisserin 40:56

Yeah. I think that it's, um, everyone who lives in the middle of America needs to go and spend some time in the mountains. I think that, you know, having grown up in the desert surrounded by mountains and doing a lot of hiking in, in the hills, and living in a valley similarly. My- the valley that I lived in was this almost, like, bowl, and it was surrounded by mountains, I just think that perspective is really nice, and, there's something about topography that is really inspiring, but it's a complete aside. Anyhow, I hope that answers your question, Paige. It was really fun to think about, and we appreciate hearing from you, and anyone else who wants to write to us, please do. We only have a couple episodes left, Kelton

Kelton 41:39

I know.

Krisserin 41:41

Of the season.

Kelton 41:42

it's on my, it's on my calendar.

Krisserin 41:47

Two more episodes

Kelton 41:48

from recording to writing, I am nervous. I'm nervous about our big deadline. I don't wanna disappoint you or our listeners or myself, so it's gonna be, it's gonna be interesting fitting it all in

Krisserin 42:04

We have until after Labor Day, 'cause we're gonna come back from our summer hiatus after Labor Day. We already have some interviews scheduled, which is really exciting. Um, one thing, to everyone who's listening, Kelton and I worked on a listener survey. We are data girlies and want the data on how we're doing. So if you are a regular listener, even if this is your first episode, we would love to get some feedback from you guys on how we're doing and how we can make the podcast even better. So we will be linking to the survey in the show notes. We'll post it on social, in our Substacks, and it'll be everywhere, and we'll keep reminding you for these next couple episodes to please, you know, give us some feedback, 'cause we would love to hear how we can do more and what you guys are interested in, and if you wanna go on a retreat with us, and if we sound the same, and what your star signs are.

Kelton 42:55

Yeah.

Krisserin 42:56

we didn't actually inclu-

Kelton 42:57

I just need you to tell me your big three. Um, I'll be waiting. I'll, I'll be doing a chart reading for our listeners.

Krisserin 43:05

I think it'll be so fun to, to know, you know, the types of people that, that gravitate towards this format. But please, please, fill out our listener survey. All right, Kelton, what's the plan? What's the plan for the week?

Kelton 43:20

What are we doing this week? Well, let's see. It's by the time you listen to this, it's gonna be June.

Krisserin 43:29

Oh my God

Kelton 43:31

Oh my God. Oh my God. All right. Well, that means that I gotta get cracking on the newsletter. So me, I think it's gonna be, two newsletters, one session of novel writing. Um, I, I, I know that are things I have to do, the

Krisserin 43:50

I was gonna say

Kelton 43:51

Um, but I, being, uh, learning to be gentle with myself, um, I do think it's nice to, like, give yourself a goal you know you can complete. Uh, and I want to finish... Oh, you know what I'll also do? In the advice that I gave our dear friend Paige, I am gonna write a one-pager on my Caribbean love story Okay, so that is Kelton's goals for next week to write newsletters, one paid, one Sunday. Uh, do one session of writing on the novel. matter how much, doesn't matter what I get done, just as long as I sit with the novel and think about it, and then a one-pager on this Caribbean love story idea that I have

Krisserin 44:42

I like that. All right, my goal for the next week, I have two. First, I do need to figure out what I'm going to be submitting for my MFA program. It's really hard because, it's like a 5,000-word count limit, and I'm struggling with that

Kelton 44:58

does it have to be a complete thing in 5,000 words or can it

Krisserin 45:03

No,

Kelton 45:04

first half

Krisserin 45:06

I think that it can be whatever, but we are gonna be workshopping it and getting feedback on it, so I, I wanna provide something that feels somewhat complete. And I, I've been attempting to cut down my short story, to fit the 5,000, but it's really, like, I'm weed whacking. Like, not even weed whacking, I'm like, uh, forest clearing. It's hard. And then I looked at the first chapter of the Gustafson novel, and it's a little over 5,000 words. So I, I need to decide what I wanna do, and I actually went into my email this week to try and figure out, like, even where to submit it, and I couldn't figure it out. I also need to a- like, figure out who I wanna request as my advisor, so I need to do some research on that. So that's... Getting my house in order for my MFA program is, important, something that I need to do.

Kelton 45:56

Okay

Krisserin 45:57

And then, outside of that, I, I think giving myself the goal of trying to write at least once would be a good one.

Kelton 46:04

Okay.

Krisserin 46:05

Yeah

Kelton 46:06

I, I think that's enough.

Krisserin 46:08

Okay

Kelton 46:08

You know, like we're both still climbing out of the hole. I don't want us to get any more DMs about how tired we look. So I don't think setting overly ambitious goals is what we need to do right now

Krisserin 46:21

I'm like, I put so much makeup on too. have our goals for the week, Kelton

Kelton 46:27

slide into our DMs and be like, "Wow, Kelton, you look 33," maybe that would help me

Krisserin 46:36

Oh. I am tired though. I am tired, yeah. But that's okay. We're gonna, we persevere. We have just a few more weeks until summer and all of the freedom that it brings, for me from s- from the kids' school, for you from me From this podcast. Listen, the podcast is a lot of work. It's so rewarding though. I'm so happy that we do it. I get so much out of being able to talk to you every week and I was thinking about it 'cause for listeners who don't know the backstory, Kelton and I worked together for, you know, a year and a half. I was only at Headspace for a year and four months, I think, be-

Kelton 47:19

to me. It feels like we worked together for the entire time I was there

Krisserin 47:23

Yeah. I was like, "Get me the fuck out of this place." Um, and but Kelton made such an impression and left such an impression, and our friendship stayed true for such a long time and, but I, this is the closest we've ever been to each other since,

Kelton 47:39

true

Krisserin 47:40

so it's been really great, and we've met so many great people and created this fun community. And, um, I am looking forward to coming back re-energized at the end of summer and, and doing it all over again, and hopefully with some improvements from the survey. So you know what? Life's good. Life's good. We're healthy. We got a whole summer ahead of us

Kelton 48:01

Yeah,

Krisserin 48:01

and,

Kelton 48:02

week we are interviewing, friend and writer Heather Hansman, who has written some books I really, really love. so I'm excited for that. And then hopefully, maybe on our final episode after that, we can get some good listener questions. So harass us. Get in the inbox, and get in the final episode

Krisserin 48:21

Yes, please. Also, if we have some good data from the listener survey, we will... I mean, we're gonna share it with you all regardless, because we like to be transparent that way, but, we'll b- we'll talk about some of the results of the survey if you get a chance to answer before. Well, we're recording that final episode on the 11th of June, so you do have some time.

Kelton 48:41

You have some time. Sending your questions, you know where to find us at officialpenpalspod@gmail.com. You can also DM us on TikTok, and you can find me on Instagram @keltonkin. You can find both of us on Substack, krisserin.substack.com, and then shangrilogs.substack.com, which is coming back. I'm so excited for my, home series this summer. and am I missing anything?

Krisserin 49:09

Yeah, follow us @penpalspod on Instagram and on TikTok, and, we will be posting the survey to penpalspod.substack.com. We're gonna post it everywhere. We're gonna post it everywhere.

Kelton 49:21

You're gonna

Krisserin 49:21

You're gonna see it a lot, yeah. All right, everybody, thank you so much for listening, and happy writing

Kelton 49:28

Happy writing